T Nation

Clomiphene Completely Ineffective With TRT


#1

I've been taking the following over the past 8 weeks:

100mg/week EOD T-cyp
200 units hCG EOD
25mg Clomiphene EOD
0.25mg anastrozole EOD

FSH came back < 1 (< 10). So for me it's completely useless. Fair enough because the manufacturer quit making it and it's now unavailable.


#2

There are many brands of generic clomiphene.

Interesting data point, though. Thank you. (There is a study or two claiming that SERMs may keep the HPTA functioning during TRT at your dose - without HCG though - so the fact that it doesn’t work for you is good to know.)


#3

No problem. I thought some might want to know my findings.

The only available brand here is Serophene, which is already a generic. Nothing else exists in Canada according to the pharmacies but they’re so full of misinformation it’s ridiculous! I’ve no reason to look further since it doesn’t have any effect and is WAY PRICEY at 9 dollars a tab!


#4

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:

The only available brand here is Serophene, which is already a generic. Nothing else exists in Canada according to the pharmacies but they’re so full of misinformation it’s ridiculous! I’ve no reason to look further since it doesn’t have any effect and is WAY PRICEY at 9 dollars a tab![/quote]

That’s crazy expensive. Not that it matters now, but it is a very common fertility drug for women and it is on the World Health Organization list of essential medicines, so I have to assume that the pharmacy is misinforming you.


#5

Clomiphene and nolvadex are also both used in estrogen positive breast cancers, not just a fertility drug.


Citations of this for clomid seem to be getting sparse.

Nolvadex works just as well. If a SERM fails to increase LH/FSH, there is something wrong/abnormal about the top end of the HPTA. In that situation in a TRT context, hCG is the only other common option to maintain the testes; but that could have limited fertility benefits in some cases and then hMG would be a option that is costly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menotropin


#6

[quote]KSman wrote:
If a SERM fails to increase LH/FSH, there is something wrong/abnormal about the top end of the HPTA. In that situation in a TRT context, hCG is the only other common option to maintain the testes; but that could have limited fertility benefits in some cases and then hMG would be a option that is costly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menotropin
[/quote]

Yup. $1100.00 for about one month last I checked. Follistim (the equivalent of FSH recombinant DNA technology) wasnt even listed though best US online price was something like 1500.


#7

Thank you for that info. I wanted to know about this in case I want kids.

So a SERM will not increase FSH while on T dose for anyone?

Or is this a particular issue with you and your pituitary/hypothalamus?

I was always wondering if I could stay on TRT and swap my HCG for low dose Nolvadex if I decide to have children.


#8

Well it didn’t work for me. Nothing wrong with my pituitary/hypothalamus. I was fertile and had a kid before TRT. Now I’d like to find someone younger and start an new family but not going to happen unless I spend a near fortune.


#9

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:

Now I’d like to find someone younger and start an new family but not going to happen unless I spend a near fortune.[/quote]

You can always temporarily go off TRT and take Clomiphene to restore fertility. I think this is commonly done and it should not be expensive.


#10

SERM should work while on TRT. So its not the drug.


#11

KSMan what did you mean by “limited fertility benefits” in regards to hcg?


#12

LH supports testicular volume and T production and also allows the scrotum to hang normally. hCG works on the LH receptor just like LH. But FSH is important to sperm production. hCG seems to have some weak activation of FSH receptor pathways. So many on hCG will remain fertile. But for guys who have some underlying fertility problems, hCG might have “limited fertility benefits”.

hCG can preserver fertility when on TRT. If one does TRT for a long time without hCG, one may need more than hCG to recover fertility. In that situation, a SERM can be used to create LH/FSH and one does not do hCG at that time. If on hCG, one can switch to a SERM at a point in time when one is trying for a pregnancy. One might switch to a SERM for a while a few times a year to get a wash of FSH effects. If the top end of the HPTA is broken, a SERM will have little effect. While on a SERM, one can test LH/FSH to see what happening. SERM’s are foreign chemicals in your body. hCG is a human hormone, so hCG is preferred for long term usage.