T Nation

Clomidiphene Citrate for Low Testosterone


#1

Hello folks from a new member. Last month I was diagonsed with low testosterone, my numbers were roughly 200 ng/dl. I've worked out for years and never been able to get any stronger while watching others who work out far less get results. I also had lost my libido many years ago which was why I sought professional help. I was told by a GP and an ordinary urologist that my T levels were good (200 at 30-years!) Thankfully the urologist referred me to a specialist urologist who told me my levels were not good, ordered many more tests and put me on clomidiphene citrate.

So far I'd like to say that this Clomid (its called Serophene in Canada) has seemed to have a profound impact on my muscle ability in only one month. I can already see new veins and I'm getting comments about having big muscles. I looked in the mirror this morning and I could actually notice a change in my chest formation. I also find myself to have more energy levels. So far, not much change in libido though I read it takes time to restore itself.

Has any other members taken Clomidiphene Citrate for low T? My next appt with the doctor is in September, if Clomid is successful, I am guessing he won't put me on testosterone replacement therapy. Though it seems Clomid is untested for the long term, as low t is a lifetime condition for most, I need to find a viable solution.


KSman is Here
#2

Clomid is a SERM [see Wikipedia]. Many have nasty estrogenic side effects from clomid; so I recommend Nolvadex which also gets the job done with that risk of sides. You seem OK on clomid.

Too much SERM [docs often over-prescribe] can create LH/FSH levels that are too high and then T–>E2 in the testes can be very high and serum E2 levels are then high. This is a good target: E2=22pg/ml. High LH levels can also desensitize LH receptors which is counter productive!

Can you post all of your pre-TRT lab work <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>?
You are young enough that you should be treating low-T as a symptom and looking to find the root cause.

Because SERM worked, you do not have primary hypogonadism. So you are secondary. What was the cause?

  • hypothyroidism - iodine deficiency
  • elevated prolactin and prolactin secreting adinoma
  • other adinoma
  • physical damage or abnormality of pituitary
  • high estrogens with possible link to liver or meds [Rx or OTC]

Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys – need more info about you — age: 31[Saskatchewan]
  • things that damage your hormones
  • finding a TRT doc

Labs:
TT
FT
E2
prolactin if younger
LH/FSH to see what clomid is doing
PSA if older
CBC with hematocrit
AST/ALT
TSH
fT3
fT4
DHEA-S
AM cortisol
Fasting cholesterol [we sometimes find that cholesterol is low, younger guys may need to push to get this tested.


#3

When it comes to desensitizing the LH receptors with an overuse of Clomid (which I may have done) is this condition reversible and/or what could be done to remedy the situation? If one were to not be effected by the side effects of Clomid, is their any benefit of running long term Clomid therapy as opposed to TRT? In some cases as little as 12.5 mg EOD, or even E3D has shown to bring test levels to the 600-800ng/dl range which is usually the goal range of TRT.

I also found Clomid to be mildly anabolic, just as you did Saskman, when I ran a 6 week clomid restart. My test levels plummeted from a AAS cycle of Test E and lackluster PCT. My Test levels have settled in the 400-450 range which is still low for a 28 year old athletic male, though I never really suffered from low libido or the majority of low T symptoms. I also never got pre-cycle blood work, so unfortunately I’ll never know what my original test levels were.


#4

[quote]Saskman84 wrote:
Hello folks from a new member. Last month I was diagonsed with low testosterone, my numbers were roughly 200 ng/dl. I’ve worked out for years and never been able to get any stronger while watching others who work out far less get results. I also had lost my libido many years ago which was why I sought professional help. I was told by a GP and an ordinary urologist that my T levels were good (200 at 30-years!) Thankfully the urologist referred me to a specialist urologist who told me my levels were not good, ordered many more tests and put me on clomidiphene citrate.

So far I’d like to say that this Clomid (its called Serophene in Canada) has seemed to have a profound impact on my muscle ability in only one month. I can already see new veins and I’m getting comments about having big muscles. I looked in the mirror this morning and I could actually notice a change in my chest formation. I also find myself to have more energy levels. So far, not much change in libido though I read it takes time to restore itself.

Has any other members taken Clomidiphene Citrate for low T? My next appt with the doctor is in September, if Clomid is successful, I am guessing he won’t put me on testosterone replacement therapy. Though it seems Clomid is untested for the long term, as low t is a lifetime condition for most, I need to find a viable solution.[/quote]

I took Clomid for a few months when I was diagnosed with low T fourteen years ago. Although it brought my T from 240 to 790–a tripling of T!–I was not fond of it and then went on Androgel. So it does work in restoring normal T values for some. And it only took me half a tab.

It took me almost a year for my libido to return to normal with Clomid or Androgel.

If you have a good doc, here’s a solution: you say, “I don’t want to continue with clomid. Please put me on T.” That’s all it took for me with my doc! If a doctor is not willing to prescribe medication based on the patients’ low T symptoms, preference, circumstance, and feedback on well being while taking lab values into consideration, then he is likely a bigoted doc.

Like KSman recommends, you should find out the cause of low T, if possible. But I am assuming the doctor already checked that out. For many it seems, low T is idiopathic, meaning there is no know cause, as in my case. I had an MRI done and there was no sign of pituitary damage or adenoma.


#5

Hi, thanks for the replies.

I will post my results back when I get them on September 4th, I may try to acquire them prior to my next visit with the urologist.

Some other things I should add is that my cholesterol has always been high, though its borderline high. My thyroid by US definition is underactive, the range was 4.4 (anything over 3 is deemed underactive by modern medical definition). Unfortunately the doctor who took my test knew little, he thought a level T of 200 was acceptable. He told me I was ok. Unfortunately they just follow the ranges, but I now have a good specialist who knows more and how to interpret results.

The urologist took about 15 different tests, so I recognize them as things requested in the about me page. Its very preliminary to suggest what is wrong with me, but my suffering started at 16, until 16, I could attain very strong erections. Overnight, they died and I had to use ED drugs since- which always worked well, though I always lacked a sex drive.

I’ve lived a fairly healthy life, I workout regularly and eat well. I don’t drink and I smoke once a month with a friend. As a child I had very bad anxiety, the urologist speculates that the low t and anxiety caused my problem- though we are still investigating.

Oh, and the doctor is more then happy to give me testosterone but he gave me Clomid as I would still be able to father a child potentially. With T, he said he woudl have to take a sperm sample as sometimes it may not be possible to ever father a child after using t.


#6

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I took Clomid for a few months when I was diagnosed with low T fourteen years ago. Although it brought my T from 240 to 790–a tripling of T!–I was not fond of it and then went on Androgel. So it does work in restoring normal T values for some. And it only took me half a tab.

It took me almost a year for my libido to return to normal with Clomid or Androgel.

If you have a good doc, here’s a solution: you say, “I don’t want to continue with clomid. Please put me on T.” That’s all it took for me with my doc! If a doctor is not willing to prescribe medication based on the patients’ low T symptoms, preference, circumstance, and feedback on well being while taking lab values into consideration, then he is likely a bigoted doc.

Like KSman recommends, you should find out the cause of low T, if possible. But I am assuming the doctor already checked that out. For many it seems, low T is idiopathic, meaning there is no know cause, as in my case. I had an MRI done and there was no sign of pituitary damage or adenoma. [/quote]

Brickhead, thanks for your response. What were you not fond of? I’d probably prefer the most potent, powerful stuff but the urologist gave me Clomid for now so I could still be fertile.

The most important thing for the moment is to restore my erectile function. I have noticed improvements over the past 5-weeks on 50mg of Clomid, though I’ve also been taking 2.5mg of Cialis. I still sense its the surge in T.

I am very impressed at the “anabolic” effect this pill has had on me. I work out regularly and over the past 5 weeks, I’ve achieved gains that I never felt before. Like a normal person I guess. I’m getting definition and more veins are coming out, I also can lift slightly heavier weight and have more energy.

The doctor is more then happy to give me HRT, but I’ll wait another month before I decide to switch to see if Clomid works. Its also my next appointment, in which the doc also drew about 15 other related blood and urine tests.

I’ve been suffering since I was 16 I speculate, at least, that’s when I felt I lost my libido. I also never achieved meaningful gains in the gym, so feeling like a new man this past month and hoping that I finally cracked the puzzle of my life.


#7

[quote]laxtreme56 wrote:
When it comes to desensitizing the LH receptors with an overuse of Clomid (which I may have done) is this condition reversible and/or what could be done to remedy the situation? If one were to not be effected by the side effects of Clomid, is their any benefit of running long term Clomid therapy as opposed to TRT? In some cases as little as 12.5 mg EOD, or even E3D has shown to bring test levels to the 600-800ng/dl range which is usually the goal range of TRT.

I also found Clomid to be mildly anabolic, just as you did Saskman, when I ran a 6 week clomid restart. My test levels plummeted from a AAS cycle of Test E and lackluster PCT. My Test levels have settled in the 400-450 range which is still low for a 28 year old athletic male, though I never really suffered from low libido or the majority of low T symptoms. I also never got pre-cycle blood work, so unfortunately I’ll never know what my original test levels were.

[/quote]

I will keep you all posted on my pre cycle bloodwork and post bloodwork in September. I have no doubt that Clomid (here in Canada it’s known as Serophene) has increased by T levels, as I said, my muscle growth has rapidly changed. 400-450 is indeed low, I’m hoping to get to 800 or 900.

I don’t have an answer to your question and I haven’t experienced any side effects of Clomid so far that have been adverse. I wasn’t advised of any dangers but I read on the Internet some people have their own opinions. Since the drug isn’t FDA approved in men for increasing T, we may never know until it happens.


#8

[quote]Saskman84 wrote:

Brickhead, thanks for your response. What were you not fond of? I’d probably prefer the most potent, powerful stuff but the urologist gave me Clomid for now so I could still be fertile. [/quote]

Looking back, I think I was just impatient and although my T level was restored, I did not give time for subjective feelings of well being to return, as well as libido. So I thought I would just go on T and the doc was fine with that. Even after I went on T, it took time for libido and sexual function to return and I suspect this was because I was hypogonadal and untreated for over a year! I did not have a firm erection for a YEAR! The doc gave some Viagra for the condition when I got on T to help in the beginning but I did not like that stuff.

Sounds good.

T with HCG is awesome for sexual function and libido in my experience.


#9

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

Sounds good.

T with HCG is awesome for sexual function and libido in my experience.[/quote]

I am excited to try it. I am also nervous. The urologist said that I had a venous leak, though when he reviewed my testosterone levels from a previous test (in which that doctor said 200 was ok) he figured that the testosterone may be the culprit. I’ve read of various survey’s on the US NIH website that showed testosterone therapy has improved erectile function in those younger men diagnosed with low t and venous leak. In some studies the leak disappeared all together.

I hope to be one of those people. I have been using ED drugs since my early 20s.


#10

I got them to email me my results before my appointment.

Noticed a few changes, like thyroid was lower (last time it was 4.5) and testosterone went up up 55 but still low.

First time I’ve seen some of the tests.

DHT: 391 pg/ml or 1438 pmol/litre (range 860-2406 pmol/l)
Total testosterone: 281.844 ng/dl or 9.78 nmol/litre
SHBG: 28 (range 13-71)
Free Androgen Index: 34 (range 14.8-94.8)
TSH - Screen - TSH: 3.23 mIU/L (range 0.49-4.67)
Total PSA: (Prostate Specific Antigen) 0.4 (ref range 0.0-4.0)
FSH: 4.13 IU/L (Range 1.4-18.1 IU/L)
LH: 2.70 IU/L (Range 20-70 years 1.5-9.3 or older then 70: 3.1-34.6)
Estradiol: 15.52 pg/ml or 57 pmol/l
Triglyceride: 0.88 nmol/l
Cholesterol: 4.45 nmol/l (range 3.8 to 5.2)
HDL Cholesterol: 1.08 nmol/l (range 0.9 to 2.40)
LDL Cholesterol: 3.40 nmol/l
Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.4 nmol/l
ALT - Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) 31 (range 4-55)

Renal (all units in nmol/l):

Sodium: 137 (range 135-145)
Potassium: 4.8 (range 3.5-5.0)
Chloride: 107 (range 98-110)
Urea: 6.4 (range 3.0-7.1)
Creatine: 76 (range 60-130)
eGFR > 60 (> Normal or slightly decreased)

GGT - Gamma Glutamyl Transferase (GGT) 16 U/L (range 15-73)
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) 16 (range 5-35)
ALP - Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP) 66 U/L (range 40-135)
Glucose - Fasting: 5.0 nmol/l (range 3.6 to 6.1)
CO2 Carbon Dioxide: 26 nmol/l (range 21-30)

Corrected Calcium:
Calcium: 2.36 nmol/l (ref 2.14-2.66)
Albumin: 39 g/l (range 35-50)
Corrected calcium: 2.38 (range 2.14 to 2.66)


#11

Can any member take a quick look at my blood results and see if they see any abnormalities? Ksman? It would be much appreciated as my understanding is very novice as this is fairly new to me.


#12

Did you?
Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys – need more info about you — age: 31[Saskatchewan]
  • things that damage your hormones
  • finding a TRT doc

So those labs were without an meds like clomid?

Please carefully re-read my first post in this thread and respond to all issues and note labs that were not done.


#13

[quote]KSman wrote:
Did you?
Please read these stickies:

  • advice for new guys – need more info about you — age: 31[Saskatchewan]
  • things that damage your hormones
  • finding a TRT doc

So those labs were without an meds like clomid?

Please carefully re-read my first post in this thread and respond to all issues and note labs that were not done.

[/quote]

Hi KSMAN,

I did indeed read those threads and I am still waiting for another month to see the results of the other categories.

I did however see that my (F) Hemoatocrit was .436 L/L (range .40-.50). I am not sure if this means also % as I saw % used as a range elsewhere.

These results are my pre-Clomid natural levels. I will probably have another set posted in September with post results.

I do have a TRT doctor, he is willing to give me T here in Canada. He is a urologist, young and specializes in erectile dysfunction.


#14

Hi guys,

So far, just an update on Clomiphene.

After 2 months of using it I am still feeling it’s increased my muscle capabilities. I am making gains, visually noticed even by others. Unfortunately I haven’t improved in the erectile category yet.

Has anyone here taken Clomiphene for low t had success in erectile function?


#15

Nolvadex potentially has a number of toxic effects, so it shouldn’t be used without continual medical supervision:

Very common side effects listed on the Nolvadex product insert include loss of libido in men (causing men with actual cancer to discontinue the drug, so you know it’s bad), weakness, pain, high blood pressure, water retention, depression, blood clots, cataracts, and other possibly permanent vision-related side effects including retinal damage: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8622006

These side effects are documented at the therapeutic dosage for cancer, which is 20 mg Nolvadex per day, but since they happen in such large percentages of patients, one would expect some risk even at lower doses one might use for HRT, especially since HRT is a lifelong treatment. Therefore medical supervision is a necessity.


#16

[quote]Saskman84 wrote:
I got them to email me my results before my appointment.

Noticed a few changes, like thyroid was lower (last time it was 4.5) and testosterone went up up 55 but still low.

First time I’ve seen some of the tests.

DHT: 391 pg/ml or 1438 pmol/litre (range 860-2406 pmol/l)
Total testosterone: 281.844 ng/dl or 9.78 nmol/litre
SHBG: 28 (range 13-71)
Free Androgen Index: 34 (range 14.8-94.8)
TSH - Screen - TSH: 3.23 mIU/L (range 0.49-4.67)
Total PSA: (Prostate Specific Antigen) 0.4 (ref range 0.0-4.0)
FSH: 4.13 IU/L (Range 1.4-18.1 IU/L)
LH: 2.70 IU/L (Range 20-70 years 1.5-9.3 or older then 70: 3.1-34.6)
Estradiol: 15.52 pg/ml or 57 pmol/l
Triglyceride: 0.88 nmol/l
Cholesterol: 4.45 nmol/l (range 3.8 to 5.2)
HDL Cholesterol: 1.08 nmol/l (range 0.9 to 2.40)
LDL Cholesterol: 3.40 nmol/l
Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.4 nmol/l
ALT - Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) 31 (range 4-55)

Renal (all units in nmol/l):

Sodium: 137 (range 135-145)
Potassium: 4.8 (range 3.5-5.0)
Chloride: 107 (range 98-110)
Urea: 6.4 (range 3.0-7.1)
Creatine: 76 (range 60-130)
eGFR > 60 (> Normal or slightly decreased)

GGT - Gamma Glutamyl Transferase (GGT) 16 U/L (range 15-73)
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) 16 (range 5-35)
ALP - Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP) 66 U/L (range 40-135)
Glucose - Fasting: 5.0 nmol/l (range 3.6 to 6.1)
CO2 Carbon Dioxide: 26 nmol/l (range 21-30)

Corrected Calcium:
Calcium: 2.36 nmol/l (ref 2.14-2.66)
Albumin: 39 g/l (range 35-50)
Corrected calcium: 2.38 (range 2.14 to 2.66)[/quote]

This is now old info right? Because i first thought this was recent info where you’re using Clomid already, and was gonna tell you that it didn’t work out regarding your Total T level. :slight_smile:

But i do have question.

Is it only me or can someone explain better if i’m totally wrong? Because clearly the lab reads you have naturally low e2, and now your taking clomid on top of it and low e2 equals erectile dysfunction and your battling with it specificly? This all makes no sense to me.

Edit: See happydog48’s estradiol, paragraph: In range does not equal good.


#17

[quote]Divyx wrote:

[quote]Saskman84 wrote:
I got them to email me my results before my appointment.

Noticed a few changes, like thyroid was lower (last time it was 4.5) and testosterone went up up 55 but still low.

First time I’ve seen some of the tests.

DHT: 391 pg/ml or 1438 pmol/litre (range 860-2406 pmol/l)
Total testosterone: 281.844 ng/dl or 9.78 nmol/litre
SHBG: 28 (range 13-71)
Free Androgen Index: 34 (range 14.8-94.8)
TSH - Screen - TSH: 3.23 mIU/L (range 0.49-4.67)
Total PSA: (Prostate Specific Antigen) 0.4 (ref range 0.0-4.0)
FSH: 4.13 IU/L (Range 1.4-18.1 IU/L)
LH: 2.70 IU/L (Range 20-70 years 1.5-9.3 or older then 70: 3.1-34.6)
Estradiol: 15.52 pg/ml or 57 pmol/l
Triglyceride: 0.88 nmol/l
Cholesterol: 4.45 nmol/l (range 3.8 to 5.2)
HDL Cholesterol: 1.08 nmol/l (range 0.9 to 2.40)
LDL Cholesterol: 3.40 nmol/l
Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.4 nmol/l
ALT - Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) 31 (range 4-55)

Renal (all units in nmol/l):

Sodium: 137 (range 135-145)
Potassium: 4.8 (range 3.5-5.0)
Chloride: 107 (range 98-110)
Urea: 6.4 (range 3.0-7.1)
Creatine: 76 (range 60-130)
eGFR > 60 (> Normal or slightly decreased)

GGT - Gamma Glutamyl Transferase (GGT) 16 U/L (range 15-73)
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) 16 (range 5-35)
ALP - Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP) 66 U/L (range 40-135)
Glucose - Fasting: 5.0 nmol/l (range 3.6 to 6.1)
CO2 Carbon Dioxide: 26 nmol/l (range 21-30)

Corrected Calcium:
Calcium: 2.36 nmol/l (ref 2.14-2.66)
Albumin: 39 g/l (range 35-50)
Corrected calcium: 2.38 (range 2.14 to 2.66)[/quote]

This is now old info right? Because i first thought this was recent info where you’re using Clomid already, and was gonna tell you that it didn’t work out regarding your Total T level. :slight_smile:

But i do have question.

Is it only me or can someone explain better if i’m totally wrong? Because clearly the lab reads you have naturally low e2, and now your taking clomid on top of it and low e2 equals erectile dysfunction and your battling with it specificly? This all makes no sense to me.

Edit: See happydog48’s estradiol, paragraph: In range does not equal good.
[/quote]

Well thanks for the reply. I learned the hardway that in range doesn’t equal good, as two doctors told me my T levels were fine- despite me having symptoms of low T, despite my test being 210 ng/l.

You are the first person to tell me I have low Estrogen levels. I’m reading here that low testosterone often equals low estrogen. Is it true? I also read, on here, that Clomid often raises Estrogen too high.

Well I have to wait to review my results taken almost two months ago here with the urologist, I have not been back since. I will return Sept 4. Nervous/Eager to see what he will say, or want to do next.


#18

sub’d


#19

[quote]Saskman84 wrote:

[quote]Divyx wrote:

[quote]Saskman84 wrote:
I got them to email me my results before my appointment.

Noticed a few changes, like thyroid was lower (last time it was 4.5) and testosterone went up up 55 but still low.

First time I’ve seen some of the tests.

DHT: 391 pg/ml or 1438 pmol/litre (range 860-2406 pmol/l)
Total testosterone: 281.844 ng/dl or 9.78 nmol/litre
SHBG: 28 (range 13-71)
Free Androgen Index: 34 (range 14.8-94.8)
TSH - Screen - TSH: 3.23 mIU/L (range 0.49-4.67)
Total PSA: (Prostate Specific Antigen) 0.4 (ref range 0.0-4.0)
FSH: 4.13 IU/L (Range 1.4-18.1 IU/L)
LH: 2.70 IU/L (Range 20-70 years 1.5-9.3 or older then 70: 3.1-34.6)
Estradiol: 15.52 pg/ml or 57 pmol/l
Triglyceride: 0.88 nmol/l
Cholesterol: 4.45 nmol/l (range 3.8 to 5.2)
HDL Cholesterol: 1.08 nmol/l (range 0.9 to 2.40)
LDL Cholesterol: 3.40 nmol/l
Non HDL Cholesterol: 3.4 nmol/l
ALT - Alanine Aminotransferase (ALT) 31 (range 4-55)

Renal (all units in nmol/l):

Sodium: 137 (range 135-145)
Potassium: 4.8 (range 3.5-5.0)
Chloride: 107 (range 98-110)
Urea: 6.4 (range 3.0-7.1)
Creatine: 76 (range 60-130)
eGFR > 60 (> Normal or slightly decreased)

GGT - Gamma Glutamyl Transferase (GGT) 16 U/L (range 15-73)
Aspartate Aminotransferase (AST) 16 (range 5-35)
ALP - Alkaline Phosphatase (ALP) 66 U/L (range 40-135)
Glucose - Fasting: 5.0 nmol/l (range 3.6 to 6.1)
CO2 Carbon Dioxide: 26 nmol/l (range 21-30)

Corrected Calcium:
Calcium: 2.36 nmol/l (ref 2.14-2.66)
Albumin: 39 g/l (range 35-50)
Corrected calcium: 2.38 (range 2.14 to 2.66)[/quote]

This is now old info right? Because i first thought this was recent info where you’re using Clomid already, and was gonna tell you that it didn’t work out regarding your Total T level. :slight_smile:

But i do have question.

Is it only me or can someone explain better if i’m totally wrong? Because clearly the lab reads you have naturally low e2, and now your taking clomid on top of it and low e2 equals erectile dysfunction and your battling with it specificly? This all makes no sense to me.

Edit: See happydog48’s estradiol, paragraph: In range does not equal good.
[/quote]

Well thanks for the reply. I learned the hardway that in range doesn’t equal good, as two doctors told me my T levels were fine- despite me having symptoms of low T, despite my test being 210 ng/l.

You are the first person to tell me I have low Estrogen levels. I’m reading here that low testosterone often equals low estrogen. Is it true? I also read, on here, that Clomid often raises Estrogen too high.

Well I have to wait to review my results taken almost two months ago here with the urologist, I have not been back since. I will return Sept 4. Nervous/Eager to see what he will say, or want to do next.[/quote]

Did they measure your prolactin in new tests?

The testosterone / estrogen ratio totally depends from many other hormone functions to your body stats ( overweight etc ). Everyone needs to test it to know for certainty and results are individual. Low T does not necessarily equal low E2.

Clomid will bind itself to estrogen receptors fooling your brain to think there’s little estrogen present, this will increase LH/FSH which in return stimulate synthesis and secretion of testosterone.

Tests will propably show your estrogen levels are from good to high, i guess, and i don’t have enough knowledge to say how human biology works in this matter regarding if such results with clomid in action should be treated as false?

Hopefully someone will fill us in.

Editing this post further:

I had little time to study more about the doctor / clomid relationship and long term use hehe. :slight_smile:

There’s no real studies about !long term! usage of clomid with males unless one has been done recently, i doubt that very much.
Check out this funny link as one example: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22458540 “Clomiphene citrate is safe and effective for long-term management of hypogonadism” published in US national library of medicine concluded by 5 doctors study.

Pretty much only thing they concluded hypogonadism wise, is that clomid raises T levels considerably and because they tested it with males who were treated with clomid for over 12 months ( not specified exactly how long ) it’s therefore a viable long term treatment for hypogonadism. Since none of the 46 patients in the experiment reported no sides, they concluded it safe.

It doesn’t sound even remotely right though.

Clomid is serm, and in lords year 2015 they are still not fully understood even though they’ve been around for decades. There’s a lot of interesting information about them.

Reported side effects with users ranging from blurred vision to nausea, mood crashes to loss of libido etc. Bioactive testosterone is very doubtful aswell with long term usage due to estrogen agonist properties.
I could go on a lot about this but everything to me says this treatment is not going to be long term and should only be short term plan at best. Think about it, it makes no sense.

If your doctor thinks estrogen blocking with serm is the way to treat your hypogonadism for the rest of your life, he is an idiot and treats you as a guinea pig. Imo you should take the traditional way but that’s just my opinion.

All the best bro, and be sure to post the results in september. :slight_smile:


#20

I did not yet see the results for the Prolactin. I know it was ordered before but maybe the lab oversaw it and made a mistake, I will make a note of it for the urologist in a couple of weeks.

If Clomid and bioactive testosterone are not good, what do you suggest?

I have no libido and it prevents me from marriage, I am in good health (other then this) and not overweight. I do fitness regularly. I probably sufferer ed since a teenager.

I feel stronger on Clomid and believe I made muscle gains, dont have much more libido though there are days it seems to be getting better.