Clomid, Good Numbers but Still Feel Bad Even on Diff Doses. Do I Need TRT?

This is why nobody takes you seriously. Lower estrogen and lower the dose if things aren’t going well. It’s the actual opposite that is true, not what you are suggesting.

Stop giving out bullshit, nonsense advice to people. It’s bullshit.

All the people I deal with who are doing well are above the ranges. Should they all lower their dose??

If their E2 is ‘high’ should they be controlling that too?

Do you even know what you are saying?

If it’s causing symptoms, on “rare occasions” yes control it. Cialis can change T/E2 ratios decreasing E2 while keeping T the same. You ignore all the men who have been on TRT for several years and can’t make it work without a low dose AI.

It’s not bullshit or nonsense because you don’t agree with it, it’s just a disagreement.

@systemlord,

Do you have any evidence that it’s high E2 that’s causing these hypothetical symptoms?

Do you leave open the possibility, however remote, that what you think are high E2 symptoms, are actually caused by something else?

How could I have evidence of symptoms that are hypothetical?

If the symptoms weren’t present before the E2 levels became high and symptoms resolve after dropping the dosage, then no it’s not something else. You seem to forget this TRT is trial and error, there are no clear lines drawn in the sand.

More often guys have inadequate labs and there isn’t much to go on and this is where trial and error becomes useful.

If something has to stop than its your reflexive recommendation to increase the dosage to everybody. A Facebook group is not evidence based medicine.

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What evidence do you have that it is the high estrogen causing the symptoms? Show me evidence in the medical literature how estrogen, in the presence of sufficient androgens, will cause these symptoms.

Don’t say another damn word until you can provide this evidence to backup what you are claiming.

I didn’t say increase. Perhaps they need more and perhaps they need less. With @systemlord the answer is ALWAYS to decrease dose and that’s where I have a problem.

@systemlord look at the last several comments I’ve made and look at how many questions I have asked you. Then read through your replies to see how many of those questions you have avoided.

Demonstrate your claims. Provide evidence for something. I don’t want your damned opinion. I want facts that you can demonstrate as proof.

The description of the symptoms and the elevated lab value. If a guy is overly emotional (a bitch), has erection issues and is crying excessively, than it’s not so far fetched that estrogen is causing his issues and he should have the opportunity to find out by taking action to lower it by decreasing the dosage.

You want evidence and you got enough of it by the high lab value and the symptoms, but you routinely ignore all the strong evidence and ALWAYS tell guys to increase the dosage.

You’re just too one-sided.

This forum would become a lonely place if everyone had to draw from “evidence” before posting advice, personal experience can be very helpful.

I said hypothetical symptoms, because you were talking about a hypothetical person.

Again, how do you know the symptoms aren’t caused by hormonal fluctuations? Why assume it’s high E2 that’s the cause?

Why always default to dropping the T dose?

You’re making claims with no evidence to back up what you’re asserting.

I was on 160mg per week, split into 2 doses per week. For 6 years, I’ve been been taking an AI because i thought that my symptoms were caused by high E2. For the last 5 weeks, I’ve been been on 200mg of test per week, split into EOD injections. So, I’ve upped the dosage per week of test by 25%, and stopped taking the AI. And, I have no “high E2” symptoms. In light of what you said before, can you see how my symptoms may not have been caused by high E2?

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Show me the fucking evidence in the medical literature that higher levels of estrogen cause any of this.

Can you show me an evidence yes or no??? I don’t want your opinion!! Are you going to? Are you going to a see ANY of the questions I’ve asked you? Are you going to continue to deflect?

Show me EVIDENCE!!!

I can see you typing. You’re not going to provide a shred of evidence again, aren’t you.

If there is no evidence in this next comment of yours, and continue to ignore all questions being asked, you’re admitting to being an idiot.

Should I just lower my clomid dose and increase my thyroid meds? I understand you guys disagree with each other but I’m more confused than ever now lol. I think TRT is a good idea but I’m not as educated as you guys and dont want to regret this decision

The lab values and symptoms, we can go around in circles all day and never get anywhere.

You are just parroting what @dbossa is saying. My advice is based off personal experience, you offer advice based off personal experience and then tell others they have no evidence to back up what they are saying, you Sr. are a hypocrite.

Again TRT is trial and error, your case will not be reflected in everyone else.

You are the most hard headed person on the internet and I’m done going in circles with you. If you don’t want my opinion, than that’s too bad because your going to get it and if you don’t like it, go stick your head in the toilet and cool off.

Why don’t you go stick your fucking head up your ass where it belongs along with your opinions. You’re a fucking fraud. Everyone here knows you’re a fucking fraud. You provide zero evidence when asked and your fallback is the lab ranges because you don’t have the IQ to understand any of this.

You’re a phony.

Guys, I’m out of here. You want to listen to the opinions of a fucking sick obese simpleton who can’t understand simple concepts, deflects from any questioning, provides zero evidence, can’t even provide a photo because he looks like a Walmart meme, and dishes out medical advice like he’s a doctor, then knock yourself out.

@Chris_Colucci this forum is all yours. Enjoy.

None of this is helping your case, it only gives others pause.

Give it a try, there is not much you can loose. You can always start TRT later, but at your age I would just at least try the other path first, especially the thyroid related first.

I had nasty side effects from clomid at a dose of 25 ed, lowering to 25 eod was better and lowering to 12.5 eod was the best. T went up from around 250 to 500 ng/dl resulting in an alleviation of all my low T symptoms.
And with regards to thyroid you are undertreated, so upping the dose might additionally help.

I was a crazy person when I tried Clomid but I can’t recall the dose. I think I was trying 25mg per day. Never again. The wife wanted to stay out like 10 minutes longer and I made a psycho scene out it. Hopefully others have better experiences.

If I offer advice from my experience, I make it clear that I’m offering advice from my experience. You won’t hear me say, “most people blah, blah, blah…”, because I have no evidence for making claims about most people.

I’m trying to get myself at optimal(for me) levels while on trt. My nature is to question any advice that people give. I like to see logic behind what people say, and evidence of their claims. My first ever reply to @dbossa was questioning his assertion that people on trt do not need an AI. And you know what he did? He actually provided me with logical answers to my questions, and evidence to back up what he was claiming. You on the other hand, just make bald assertions about “most people”, and illogical assumptions that high E2 is the cause of symptoms, WITHOUT OFFERING ANY EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER!