T Nation

Clomid as T Replacement?

Hey guys,
So to make a long story short.

Last year i was dealing with high Prolactin which i managed to drop by losing weight and dieting.

i was 98kg with 25% Bf. Right now im 83kg 11%. Pretty lean yet i still have the stubborn fat around my stomach.

I have done several Hormone tests.

SHBG was always low (low end always) free Androgen Index was at the high end.

Problem is with Total testosterone always around 415-470, Only once came as 502.
I’m 22 years old, eat clean (Vertical diet since 2 years) and lift weights since 7 years.

I did powerlifting 6 meets and stopped because of an injury and now coming back. gotta stick to the 83kg category.
For the last year i am struggling to put on muscle or strength which is pissing me off and demotivating me.
As far as i know my Testosterone levels are within the norm but the norm includes 80 years old people as well.

I don’t want to start with T replacement and i read an article in this website about Clomid as a safer option than T-replacement.

What do you guys think? 25mg for a month and then take another test?

Much appreciated!

My total testosterone is very similar. It is pretty low for your age. Forget about the “normal” ranges. Your testosterone should be at least 900.

You can try clomid, its pretty safe. It is even more applicable to you because it may raise SHBG.

Bear in mind most people feel shitty from clomid, me included. But some people get most of their low t symptoms resloved by it and are happy to stay on clomid long time. The good thing about clomid is you can start and stop it any time and unlike testosterone not only it does not reduce fertility, but imroves it.

Start to take 12.5mg (1/4 tablet) EOD. If you feel bad from it stop it at some point and thats it.

Thanks man! Tons of information. Do you have a blood test before and after?

You can yes. Test total t, shbg, estradiol and LH if you want spend the money for all of it. Otherwise test only total T.

The thing is clomid should stimulate your LH, but unfortunately it can increase estradiol or SHBG. Good that your SHBG is low for this case.

Bear in mind T-replacement can be the only thing that can really optimize your testosterone levels. But it has some side effects, worst of it is loss of fertility. You can compensate this by injecting another substance HCG.

But before going TRT as a young guy you should also expend all other options. Have you checked vitamin-d levels in blood, zinc and magnesium?

Is it possible you are overtraining? This can fuck up your testosterone big time. How is your diet?

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I did all of them, Luckily in my country those are for free (everything other than Free Test is for free) so i did them. I asked if you did and can provide the improvement.

Vitamin D Zinc and magnesium are in check. I’m on 5000 IU of D3 a day and take daily ZMA.
Training is going well, no over training
sleep 22 to 6.

Diet is clean, rich in cholesterol

Morning : Eggs, Spinach, Bell pepper + slice of cheddar cheese + Orange.
Lunch : Sweet potato + Chicken breast
2nd lunch = 95% lean ground beef with rice and chicken stock
Dinner : Steak and Rice

In between i have an oatmeal with a protein shake and Greek yogurt and Carrots.

Yes, for me clomid raised testosterone, but I started feeling worse. For the people that clomid doesn’t work it plays like that. You stop it, and when the bad feeling from it disappears testosterone has dropped to base level.

This is the negative clomid scenario

Food sounds pretty solid. Can you explain about your prolactine?

I also had elevated prolactin, but little elevated and now I’m taking small dosages of cabergoline.

Well, one and a half year ago, i tested and got 461 mIU/L. which is 41 points over the maximum range.

With vitamin E and the right diet i dropped it to 212.

Hm. With me diet only doesn’t work, but I have empty sella syndrom on the pituitary so could be because of that. I will have a consultation with one of the best hormonal doctors after two weeks and we will design together a plan of action. I guess he will recommend me TRT.

My total test is normally lurking around 400s and 500s.

To decide how much you would benefit from testosterone optimization you need to know do you have low T symptoms. For some small percentage of people your test levels can be fine. For example I have almost all symptoms at these levels.

Symptoms + blood levels should determine whether you need T optimization or not.

How did you find out that you had empty sells syndrome and do you know what caused it?

NMR, nobody can say what caused it but I don’t think it causes much consequences. Even the prolactin I’m not sure was elevated because of that.

Total T is the inactive form of testosterone, you should concern yourself with the free portion of testosterone when checking T status. Men with low SHBG may not need very high Total T to equal good Free T levels. If you have your Free T levels on the higher end than you don’t need a high Total T.

I feel optimal at 500 ng/dL and Free T at 20 pg/mL (6.8-21.5), I have low SHBG as well. I don’t see any thyroid labs, testosterone cannot work well with low thyroid hormones.

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I had a MRI done about two years ago do you think it would make sense for me to get another one?

So what your saying is that Free T is way more important then TT. What is the range most guys feel good at with Free T? I have low SHGB like you as well

They will be. SHBG is runs in inverse proportion to androgen levels if you are functioning correctly. Clomid is a terrible idea for anything other than temporary use like a PCT/Restart or fertility. Your problem is probably partly in your diet, and partly in your lifting program. I would guess by your posted info that you aren’t getting enough fat, or really enough calories. Your are possibly low in some minerals, but you’d need testing to know. Your training volume is probably too high as well. The other thing is, your Total test is not going to be high with high free T or free androgen number. If you were to use a non aromatising drug like Anavar for instance, your system will be suppressed and your Total T would drop, but your androgen level would be sky high. You should start with a training log under that category and looking for some advice on diet and training tweaks.

This is the thing, I dont feel optimal:

Here are 2 of my blood tests.
First one was 22.02.2018, when i started feeling symptoms ( TT level was low end (9.9))
The other picture was exactly 1 year after, it increased and got stuck right there.

I feel the symptoms in my training, as for training and over training case, I have a coach ( i train in a powerlifting gym ( we are 18) and 5 of us are in the german national team, so fair to say that the coach and training is not an issue, question is, if Clomid won’t help, how can it make it worse?

Hey man, as i said, due to the possibility of having free blood tests in my country, i do them every 2 months and i am not deficient in mineral (Zinc, Magnesium, Vitamin D and so on). I eat eggs, Meat (usually 5% ground beef and a Rib eye at night) + Full fat greek yogurt and a slice of cheddar cheese so i think i am getting enough fat, regarding calories I’m eating around 2800.

I have added 2 blood tests below, check them out please!

Your tests are not that bad and you may have a decent amount of free t even with the suboptimal total T.

I suggest you pay for testing the free t but test the total t as well at that time. And what is this androgen index? How is that shit calculated?

Your thyroid also seems almost optimal, the T3 looks decent. The only possibility of problems there is if you have very high Reverse T3.

Can you describe precisely what symptoms do you experience? The situation with the testosterone is very subtle. Just everybody needs different number to feel well. But also your symptoms may be due to something else.

I think you need to make a consultation with a really qualified hormonal doctor who understand this stuff, but prepare cash for that, they are expensive