T Nation

Clomid and then Testing

Well went to see a urologist today to try to get hcg from him. We talked a bit and he said he doesn’t want to put me on t-injections and hcg due to scarring (I mentioned I might want another kid in the future).

Anyways he wanted to run some other tests that my other doc didn’t and wanted to take me off T-shots, I said no. I told him there is no way I’m going back to feeling like shit.

Then he talked about clomid, I was against this at first also but told him I’d try it but if I feel like crap he’s putting me back on T. So I get 2 more t shots while taking the clomid and then get tested for LH, FSH, TT and SHBG 4 weeks later.

He thought I was kinda young to be having these problems and wanted to see why, I’ve basically been symptomatic for about 10 years.

When young it is not age related decline and other reasons need to be considered:

If not a problem of the testes; damage to the pituitary from a blow to the head, a tumor or growth on/of the pituitary, HPTA suppression from elevated E caused by a liver problem or drugs, alcohol, supplements or foods that load interfere with the liver’s ability to clear E from the system.

There can be bad gut flora that liberate E from the metabolites excreted in the liver bile. The HPTA can also be suppressed by elevated progesterone or prolactin.

There are drugs that can lower testosterone levels by driving up E levels, sometimes producing gyno. There are two cases of low T, those with low E and those with moderate or high T. If T is down, E should be. If not, one needs to look for things ingested that may be the reason.

As for growths interfering with the pituitary causing hypogonadism, that can create pressure on one or both optic nerves which leads to vision problems. Vision changes should be considered a symptom of hypogonadism that also should need to a brain scan.

If the HPTA is the problem and the testes are willing and able, hCG as HRT might provide some significant benefits. With age related decline, hCG can keep the testes working, but may not create useful amounts of T.

[quote]Rapt wrote:
Well went to see a urologist today to try to get hcg from him. We talked a bit and he said he doesn’t want to put me on t-injections and hcg due to scarring (I mentioned I might want another kid in the future).

Anyways he wanted to run some other tests that my other doc didn’t and wanted to take me off T-shots, I said no. I told him there is no way I’m going back to feeling like shit.

Then he talked about clomid, I was against this at first also but told him I’d try it but if I feel like crap he’s putting me back on T. So I get 2 more t shots while taking the clomid and then get tested for LH, FSH, TT and SHBG 4 weeks later.

He thought I was kinda young to be having these problems and wanted to see why, I’ve basically been symptomatic for about 10 years.[/quote]

Scaring can be reduced by using #29 .5" .5ml insulin syringes for T EOD or #25 1" in the quads. You do not need to use 1.5" needles.

hCG is injected SC EOD and the scaring issue is less than injecting insulin a few times per day.

Clomid has more and some risk of serious side effects than hCG for life long use.

One needs arimidex in any case. Clomid and all SERMs increase lead to increased E2 levels and the parts of the body that are not protected by the SERM a sujected to high E levels.

Clomiphene citrate is generally well tolerated. Adverse reactions usually have been mild and transient and most have disappeared promptly after treatment has been discontinued. Visual Symptoms - Blurred vision, lights, floaters, waves, unspecified visual complaints, photophobia, diplopia, scotomata, phosphenes and headaches are those most common I have encountered. Reducing the dosage or discontinuing the medication resolves these side effects.

I think by scaring he meant somthing to do with the reproductive organs. I mean why why I care about needle scars where no one is going to see them?

LH does not cause scaring and hCG does not.

When HPTA shutdown, after a long time, the testes can shrink and structure can be lost, reducing the testes to small lumps of what amounts to useless scar tissue.

I think that the concern was about IM injections causing muscle scaring. A Canadian study showed that T injected SC works better than IM for weekly injections [less spikes and drops]. So that is an alternative. A few are doing this. But it is unknown to almost all doctors and suggesting this would be blasphemy.

Hey have a link for that study?
thanks