Clomid and Estradiol

I have heard and read different things on how Clomid can affect Estrogen…
My doctor told me I could take clomid and it would help to control my Estrogen while on TRT…
At that point I did not understand enough about TRT in general.

I have been on Clomid for (25mgEOD) 5 months and while it has increased my total T about 30% my Free T has not gone up much… While my E2 has gone up from 19 to 70…

Anyhow getting off topic… this article also lends to the ideation of Clomid controlling E2 ?? What don’t I understand ?

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/clomid_testosterone.aspx

BTW - I have been tapering off clomid and took my last 25MG last week

Of course it’s not going to work if you let your E2 get to 70. Need to take aromasin to keep E2 down. Probably have really good levels and need a lot less Clomid if you got E2 down.

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
I have heard and read different things on how Clomid can affect Estrogen…
My doctor told me I could take clomid and it would help to control my Estrogen while on TRT…
What don’t I understand ?

[/quote]

I have issues with wrapping my head around the whole clomid therapy as well. I thought that it blocked E2 and increased TT, which is what happened in my case. (But I still felt like crap). In your case, your E2 went sky high as your TT went up.

This is the source for the next quote: http://shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html

In a healthy male, the pituitary gland in the brain releases luteinizing hormone (LH) into the blood stream, which signals the testes to ‘GO’ and produce testosterone. After testosterone has been produced it naturally converts to some estrogen (yes, there is estrogen in men too) and this estrogen acts as a ‘STOP’ signal to the pituitary to stop making LH. It is a delicate system of checks and balances which I have simplified here for our purposes.

Clomid works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary and hypothalamus. Thus, the usual estrogen message to ‘STOP’ production of LH is essentially silenced, and therefore the pituitary makes more LH and there is an increased ‘GO’ signal to produce testosterone in the testes. HCG works by mimicking LH, which also increases the ‘GO’ signal to produce more testosterone in the testes. Prescribing testosterone for a man, however, does the opposite of what clomiphene and HCG do.

Sometimes things have to be explained to me 5 different ways for them to sink in, but with clomid, I think I have read 5 different (and contradicting) explanations on what it typically does as a TRT treatment.

You asked in my thread as well, I was hoping that someone would answer it.

[quote]Macmathews wrote:

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:
I have a feeling the clomiphene dose is still too high. I mean, 880 TT is almost double my result on testosterone AND the FSH is through the roof. Once Clomid kicks in maybe it takes less of the drug to maintain effective estrogen blocking? Maybe you could space it out another day as well? The half-life is 5-7 days so EOD is really piggybacking a few of your doses. [/quote]

What do you mean by this ?? how does clomid block estrogen ?

“Once Clomid kicks in maybe it takes less of the drug to maintain effective estrogen blocking”

[/quote]

Is it that very low doses of Clomid (12.5MG EOD) will raise TT effectively without boosting E2 too much? Mac, did you get your high E2 reading at 25mg ED? Did you try a lower dose to see if that helped with reducing?

[quote]redjr wrote:

[quote]Macmathews wrote:
I have heard and read different things on how Clomid can affect Estrogen…
My doctor told me I could take clomid and it would help to control my Estrogen while on TRT…
What don’t I understand ?

[/quote]

I have issues with wrapping my head around the whole clomid therapy as well. I thought that it blocked E2 and increased TT, which is what happened in my case. (But I still felt like crap). In your case, your E2 went sky high as your TT went up.

This is the source for the next quote: http://shiramillermd.com/blog/clomid-men-testosterone-alternative.html

In a healthy male, the pituitary gland in the brain releases luteinizing hormone (LH) into the blood stream, which signals the testes to ‘GO’ and produce testosterone. After testosterone has been produced it naturally converts to some estrogen (yes, there is estrogen in men too) and this estrogen acts as a ‘STOP’ signal to the pituitary to stop making LH. It is a delicate system of checks and balances which I have simplified here for our purposes.

Clomid works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary and hypothalamus. Thus, the usual estrogen message to ‘STOP’ production of LH is essentially silenced, and therefore the pituitary makes more LH and there is an increased ‘GO’ signal to produce testosterone in the testes. HCG works by mimicking LH, which also increases the ‘GO’ signal to produce more testosterone in the testes. Prescribing testosterone for a man, however, does the opposite of what clomiphene and HCG do.

Sometimes things have to be explained to me 5 different ways for them to sink in, but with clomid, I think I have read 5 different (and contradicting) explanations on what it typically does as a TRT treatment.

You asked in my thread as well, I was hoping that someone would answer it.

[quote]Macmathews wrote:

[quote]C27 H40 O3 wrote:
I have a feeling the clomiphene dose is still too high. I mean, 880 TT is almost double my result on testosterone AND the FSH is through the roof. Once Clomid kicks in maybe it takes less of the drug to maintain effective estrogen blocking? Maybe you could space it out another day as well? The half-life is 5-7 days so EOD is really piggybacking a few of your doses. [/quote]

What do you mean by this ?? how does clomid block estrogen ?

“Once Clomid kicks in maybe it takes less of the drug to maintain effective estrogen blocking”

[/quote]

Is it that very low doses of Clomid (12.5MG EOD) will raise TT effectively without boosting E2 too much? Mac, did you get your high E2 reading at 25mg ED?Did you try a lower dose to see if that helped with reducing?
[/quote]

Clomid is a SERM. Select estrogen receptor modulator. Clomid blocks e2 from attaching to some estrogen receptors. You still have the estrogen in your blood and it can still bind to the non selected receptors just like before clomid.

Aromasin is an AI. aromatase inhibitor. This class of drugs blocks aromatase. Aromatase is the enzyme that converts testosterone into estrogen. Take away some of the aromatase, less estrogen made and less to bind to the estrogen receptors. Aromasin binds to aromatase indefinitely. Arimidex binds to aromatase for awhile(i dont know a time frame) and then lets go, putting the e2 back into your system. This is why arimidex can have a rebound effect when you stop taking it.

Clear as mud?