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Clomid 50mg Daily, 3 wks. Off the Charts T Levels - TT 1452


#1

Guys, I started taking Clomid a month ago. Here are my before and after labs:

March 25, 2016 Labs
TT - 345
CBC with hematocrit - 46.5
Prolactin - 10.6
LH - 1.4
FSH - 3.3

December 30, 2016 Labs:
TT - 443
E2 - 28
prolactin if younger
LH/FSH to see what clomid is doing
PSA - .45
CBC with hematocrit - 48.1
AST/ALT - 29
TSH - 1.514
LH - 3.2

January 21, 2017 labs (3 weeks on 50mg clomid daily)
TT - 1452!! Not sure how this is so high
E2 - 60 Bit high
CBC with hematocrit - 46.1
LH - 8.9

Just to say a quick bit, I was had general symptoms of low energy, little desire for sex, no morning woods, irritability. I read up on my LH and FSH levels and self-diagnosed as secondary hypogonadal, so I talked with my doctor about Clomid, which he agreed to start me on. His initial dosage was 50mg a day, which I thought to be high, but followed his advice. The first two days on it, I could not sleep more than an hour. I pushed through that and have been taking it for a month now.

What I can say now is that I get morning wood every day now, and random woods throughout the day. I constantly am thinking of sex now, and my desire for women has been amplified. I also sleep like a brick. Overall, I was a bit moody on Clomid at the 50 mg ED. After my second labs and seeing the 1452 TT, my doctor reduced the prescription to 25mg ED, which I can already feel my mood getting better.

So, question, my E2 level seems high. Any opinions on this? I assume with the lower dosage it should drop a bit. Also, is this normal to have my T levels go so high? Having been on it, I can tell my muscle mass has increased - I have gained 7-10 lbs in a month and lost a bit of fat.


#2

Yeah man those T levels are insanely high! Well at least you know the clomid is working haha. But anyways yeah your t levels are about as high as running 250mg-400mg of testosterone a week haha. But yeah clomid is helping the prevention of your pituitary gland from producing estrogen its self so the problem isn’t there. The problem is is that your T levels are so damn high that some of the testosterone is converting to estrogen, which can be a bad thing but good news is is that you’re feeling alright now. But yeah I’d talk with your doctor about reducing the dosing of the clomid or reducing the frequency. Maybe 50mg ED to 50mg EOD. Clomid had a half life of 5-7 days (someone correct me if I’m wrong) so maybe ED is a little too much haha. Maybe even go to E3D or something, idk. But yeah definitely ask him about switching up the dose or dose frequency


#3

We do caution against high clomid doses for good reasons and your high E2 is predicted. We try to get guys on TRT near E2=22pg/ml.

While the SERM does protect selected tissues from the effects of elevated tissues, your fat cells, brain and liver are probably not. Liver sees high SHBG and it responds by increasing SHBG that lowers FT fraction. You can become bitchy and have adverse fat gain and patterns. Oddly, a few get gyno.

SERM is causing high LH=8.9 and creating high E2 from high T–>E2 inside the testes and anastrozole cannot work there. So you can’t fix this that way.

Doctors do not get it, deductive reasoning was not part of med school.

Also high E2 blocks some T action at T receptors, reducing effectiveness of what Bio-T you have. And high LH/FSH is though to fatigue receptors in the testes, a step backwards.

In the future, always include lab ranges.
Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys - need more info about you
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How old are you? Needing TRT or need to fix HPTA?

TSH=1.51 is starting to get interesting. The lab range is useless and you would be better off near TSH=1.0
There may be a problem if you have not been using iodized salt.
Do not think that this is a tangent to your state of health.


#4

Thank you for replying. Here are the tests and reference ranges. I admit I have been exceptionally moody this past month. Less so now on 25mg daily. I am contemplating 12.5 daily or 25mg EOD. Do you have a recommendation based on these numbers or would I be better off with something else? I am not taking an AI. Talked to my doctor about it and he really didn’t know anything about it.

January 21, 2017
Name, Value, Reference Range
Luteinizing Hormone 8.9, 1.50-9.30 (mIU/mL)
Estradiol 60, 0.0-39.8 (pg/mL)
ALT 32, 16-63 (U/L)
Testosterone, Total 1452, 199-1586 (ng/dL)
Hematocrit 46.1, 36.9-52.1 (%)

December 30, 2016

Testosterone, Total 443, 241-827 (ng/dL)
Luteinizing Hormone 3.2, 1.50-9.30 (mIU/mL)
Ferritin 159 26.0-388.0 (ng/mL)
PSA (Prostate Specific Ag) 0.45, 0.00-4.00 (ng/mL)
ALT 29, 10-56 (U/L)
Estradiol 28, 0.0-39.8 (pg/mL)


#5

As @KSman said, an AI will not help reduce E2 since it’s inside the testes. I saw this personally when I was on clomid and even though I am very sensitive to anastrozole, my E2 actually went up to 79 while on it.

It’s good to hear that for the most part, you’re getting good results. The high E2 for me meant that while in general I felt OK, I rarely had morning woods and often could not perform.

I would do 25mg/daily for a while, then do lab work, and more importantly, look at your symptoms and see how you feel. Ideally you want to take the minimum effective dose of any medication, and clomid is no different, especially since there is no research on its long-term use. Hopefully you’ll be able to find the sweet spot with it.


#6

25mg/day is often too much, you will need frequent labs

You may not be able to fly on clomid+anastrozole and reach your destination.


#7

Feeling better on a lower dose?

Reminder that SERM induced high E2 can be expected to not respond well to anastrozole as the problem is high T–>E2 inside the testes where T is so high, the T competitive AI anastrozole simply is out gunned.