How do you fix this? My left arm has this problem. No elbow pain but its one of the reasons i hate bench
First, think of your bones. Floating in space. Supported and moved by muscles. With some joints in there. Muscles move the bones at the joints. To make it simple think of your elbow. The front is the biceps the back is the triceps. When you curl, you use your bicep. But your tricep works too, to support the elbow joint and act as a “break” or de-accelerator.
This goes the other way too. When you use your tricep to extend your arm, your bicep works “against” it. It pulls the other way, to support your elbow and keep you from over extending your arm.
The shoulder joint works like this too. Only it’s way, way more and move-able and complex. And there is a shoulder blade in there too.
There are a bunch of muscles that work together and against eachother to move and support all that stuff.
Sometimes, your shit gets wonky. Muscles that are supposed to support and “break” start to be used to “move.” Other little muscles are left out. Its a mess. Instead of the serratus being active and holding you upright, the lats, pecs and upper traps get all active and tight, pulling your shoulders forward. Making you rounded. With bad scap tilt.
Bad vs good. See the slump and the forward tilted shoulder blade?
It’s reversed here. Good vs bad. Can you see the “good” vertical scap and the bad tilted scap?
Good. Look at the vertical shoulder blade.
Bad, look at the tilt. The lower part of the shoulder blade is lifting away from the ribs. And the top is pulling forward, over the shoulder.
You need that stuff under your arm pit to work, to pull your shoulder blade into good tilt.
So, seriously READ THIS. Please follow this month long discussion, and the months worth of links in there.
To clarify wall slides…you stand against the wall and try not to arch the low back. Do you posteriorly tilt the pelvis or just stand relaxed and neutral? I tilted my pelvis so there was no gap between my low back and the wall. I was able to get into position and do the wall slides but I had pain in the right shoulder (no surprise).
Does this mean I don’t have to consider the serratus a problem and can continue doing what I’ve been doing as maintenance?
No. That shows your shoulder is a big problem. If you get pain in an unweighted wall slide, your shoulder will move funny to avoid pain in a weighted lift.
You’ve mentioned bouncing the barbell under your chin on the military press. No stability at the bottom. Wall slide without pain and you’ll be a better presser.
You’ve had trouble with rows. Bad scap tilt and shoulder position. Fix this to row better.
Your bicep feels like its going to tear off carrying some groceries. Bad shoulder position, lack of serratus and external rotators.
It’s all related. Check out post 986 in this log. And 998-1008 in this log. And 958.
And this DETAILED DISCUSSION OF THESE ISSUES.
My shoulder problem right now is biceps tendon subluxation. I’ve had biceps tendinitis in the past and it gets better with rest. This is a new experience though.
I’ve never had a problem with rows until this and it’s only a problem when my bicep kicks in too much (for the tendon to stay on the groove).
For the time being my only shoulder work will be lateral raises. My training today is just about everything I’m willing to do right now. The only issue I had with my shoulder was a pop on leg curls (tensed up and pulled on the handles when it got tough) and reverse cable curls. Everything was good on those until fatigue set in and the tendon popped out of the groove.
Your bicep is slipping out because your shoulder is rolled forward due to weak postural and external rotator muscles. Your bicep tendon is attached to your scapula. Which is tipped forward because the “top” is pulled forward, or rolled over. And the bottom is coming away from your ribs. Due to a weak serratus. Like I’ve shown in pictures. And talked EXTENSIVELY about.
The cure for bicep tendonitis is going to be increased flexibility and stability through the shoulder joint. Better posture. Starting with proper scap tilt. Pec stretches and external rotations. Rear delts and rhomboids.
My scapulae don’t look anything like Vin Diesel’s. I’ve been following along with your posts. I’ve also been doing face pulls or reverse fly’s for years. I’ve always emphasized my back over my chest. That doesn’t mean that all the time I spend in the patrol car doesn’t take its toll.
I’ll keep taking care of my shoulders but I don’t think the serratus is the culprit. I’ve programmed face pulls, reverse fly’s, and YTWLI raises into my new routine. My only pressing is going to be push ups.
Well the seat position and steering wheel aren’t an issue. I move the seat back all the way and in some cars I move it down. Add a duty belt and ballistic vest and it puts the head rest too far back. I try to use it but I usually have to tilt my head back to reach it.
12-12 Chest Bicep
Band Arm Stretch. Donnie Thompson band serratus/ex rotation. Arm circles against wall.
Plate Loaded Iso Incline Machine
Band/Handle serratus twist move, laying on incline bench between sets.
Plate Loaded Iso Dip Machine
Band/Handle serratus twists standing parallel to handle at rib height between sets. Very hard for right side.
Pec Deck x12
Right into Incline Dumbbell Bench x12
3 paired sets. Didn’t get all reps on last set.
Band/Handle serratus twists, laying on incline, arm bent, handle near shoulder/chest, like the “bottom” of a dumbbell incline bench. Kinda tricky to get that shoulder depression and external rotation.
Band/Handle serratus twist, midway point of curl, like elbow 90 degrees, hand supinated. Super difficult and clumsy on right side. I had to talk to myself and try step by step.
Spider Curl with Barbell x10 or 12
Incline Dumbbell Curl x10 ish
Cable Curl x12 or 15
3 loops. Used some heavier weights.
Another good one. Today, the morning after, chest biceps and upper back are sore.
how did the shoulders feel?
i like the way your training is set up
These made my shoulders feel great! Post #958 I’m reading the other thread on scap issues and I’m being more mindful of my posture because of these threads. Thanks for all the good stuff you are sharing!
Shoulders felt good enough that I didn’t even notice them today. That’s pretty good! I’ve been having fun with the setup, running things in series lately. I like to keep moving between sets.
Thanks for saying so man. I’m glad this stuff is helping.
Those rotations and band rotations are great! I was sort of dead in the water and they got me on track again.
Door frame Pec stretch. Standing Y raise with ripped band. Arm circles against wall.
Face Down Scarecrow Hold x3
Incline Dumbbell Shrug x15
5 sets. Up to 85s
Single Arm Pulldown Machine
Standing Y Raise with “Band” x12
Barbell Shrug, hold at Top x12
Like 8 sets
Seated Calf Raises x15
Laying Leg Curls (half rep, hold in middle, then full rep)x8
4 pairs. I did these during the last half of shrugs.
McGill Curl Up x4
Dead Bug Leg Drop x4
Barbell RDL x10
4 times. RDLs still sucked. I hate this lift! Shoulda used dumbbells.
Band Y Raises. An old mini band at the gym ripped, so it was like a “string” instead of a “loop.” I grabbed the ends and put anchored the middle on the ground a couple feet in front of me.
It felt really good. Great external rotation at the top, and a nice, comfortable slow eccentric. I glad that band broke because this is a good move.
Face Down Scarecrow Hold: I set up like this
Only no dumbbells. I just raise my arms, the try to keep my elbows out and rotate my thumbs behind me. I picture this
But I try to keep forearms more vertical. While face down on the bench. Lately I’ve been super-humping the bench, trying for good pelvic tilt and a neutral lower back.
Band stretch, arm circles against wall. Sit on plyo box in that Pails/Rails position. I forgot exactly what I was supposed to do, but I tried to stay hips squared while my legs were each doing something different.
Dumbbell Rear Delt Extensions, Face Down on Inclined Bench x12
Reverse Pec Deck x10
Cable Side Delt Raise x12
Paired with Cable Pallof x8 or Cable Sidebend x8
Seated DB Press
50 x14, failed on 15.
I sat on the plyo box for hip stuff between sets. 50 x14 on seated dumbbell press is some kind of record. Like most weight/reps since I was 33 or something. Maybe that hip pails/rails is good?
Single Arm D Ring Tricep Pushdown (10 overhand, 10 underhand)
Rolling Dumbbell Tricep Extension x12ish
Dumbbell PJR Pullover x15ish
3 loops. Pretty, pretty good.
Good workout, but kinda rushed because of some chit chat. Big Powerlifter Jim, who I hadn’t seen in awhile, and his homie were hype about a new routine. They were “bodybuilding” and “doing lifts they never did before” and “feeling great.” Poor Jim was so beat up and in motivated to bench/squat/dead he almost quit lifting.
My girl has been less performance focused and more physique focused since she hurt her back. She was also discouraged, bored and sore. She’s been loving the BB style too, so we had a nice talk about it.
The dudes were doing the Jim Stoppani “Superman Remastered” program.
My hips feel good today. I’m going to mess around with those “Pails/Rails” or “Pigeon Stretch Position” or “90/90 hip position” more in the future.
I think I need to start with the front shin more straight up and down, and gradually work it towards parallel to the ground. I think I can somehow sit on one box that’s “high” and put my foot on another box thats in front and “low.” I believe this will let me work some hip rotation without having to bring my knee close to my chest, going into big, painful hip flexion.
At the same time I think I can keep the knee of my back leg, in front of my hip to keep away from an excessive stretch on the other side. In theory I want to “pattern” or “teach” my glutes to do their thing using the Pails and Rails, without stretching and twisting the front of my hips all to hell.
I can Almost see what I’m trying to do in my head. Chris Ottawa seems to be right about rolling out the Rectus Femoris. I feel like it does release tension right in the front of the hip joint. Hopefully I can use the lacrosse ball to keep my shit loose while I figure this out.
Sweet workout! i bet you felt good after, all over that heavy external rotation focus.
That chicks back is ridiculous! wish my back looked like that!
shout out to the bench humping, big fan of that!!
I’m struggling to picture these positions… I found these for pigeon stretch:
I found this for pails and rails but I was picturing this as the 90/90 stretch:
For that last one I’ve been doing it by lying on my back, bending one leg so that the knee is at 90, and sliding the foot out while letting the leg internally rotate. I can sit up a bit to increase the stretch.
I’ve also just done the old fashioned hurdle stretch with the leg internally rotated. I’m pretty sure people used to say it was the bad way of doing it. I can lean in different directions to manipulate the stretch.
I can’t find a good picture, but look at your photo of the guy with the green pants. The “back” leg is pulled back and twisted out to the side. In the pic of the woman in the black tights, her back leg is so far back her lower back is arched and pelvis is tipped. In the picture just above, the woman’s “bottom” leg is pointing “down” instead of twisted out to the side. And it’s “in front” of her hips, so her back is nice and flat.
Her “front” leg and knee are below her hips, so there is less torque on the joint. I want to sit on a box, so my “back leg” can hang down instead of being twisted out or pushed way back. And put my front leg on a box lower than the one I’m sitting on. As I get more ROM I’ll lower the box I’m sitting on.
Basically I’m trying to do the hurdle stretch, but starting Easy, up high by sitting on a stool.
I’ve been working on the lay on back, internally rotate move, but I’m “stuck.” I can’t seem to make it turn any farther.