T Nation

Clean's Double Acceleration

Hello, I have been a fan of Testosterone Nation since 2004 and a fan of the Oympic lifts.

I became addicted the first time I attempted a Power Clean.
I’ve mostly been reading only articles without much forum activity (Lucky for you).

Finally I have the chance to enjoy exchanching thoughts and learning at the forum.

So here are my first Olympic lift questions:

   1. Why does the Power Clean have two acceleration moments? (Lifting off the floor with the quadriceps              +  posterior chain explosion) 
   2. Is there evidence that this produces the best numbers? Why not 1 maximum acceleration or why not other numbers? 
   3. Since when has this rule been taught?
   4. Is it not more draining concentrating on 2 accelerations instead of one?

Thank you in advance for any help.

Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).

One problem seems to be swinging the bar out forwards. Keeping the bar travelling straight up and close to the body is something to aim for to (possibly) reduce the double acceleration.

And with regards to the quadriceps initiating the lift, I don’t the think quads are the dominant movers there. It is started in the ‘hinge’ position which is (mostly) a hamstring/glute/hips/torso movement.

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).

One problem seems to be swinging the bar out forwards. Keeping the bar travelling straight up and close to the body is something to aim for to (possibly) reduce the double acceleration.

And with regards to the quadriceps initiating the lift, I don’t the think quads are the dominant movers there. It is started in the ‘hinge’ position which is (mostly) a hamstring/glute/hips/torso movement.[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise. http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_master_the_power_clean

“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.

For years I also did the Power Clean focusing on one powerful pull, with decent rssults (1.5 * bodyweight). Now I’m gonna focus on the traditional method and see what happens.

Good luck with the Clean and don’t shit your pants when you find out the truth on how to execute them with the article.

Cheers friend.

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).

One problem seems to be swinging the bar out forwards. Keeping the bar travelling straight up and close to the body is something to aim for to (possibly) reduce the double acceleration.

And with regards to the quadriceps initiating the lift, I don’t the think quads are the dominant movers there. It is started in the ‘hinge’ position which is (mostly) a hamstring/glute/hips/torso movement.[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise. http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_master_the_power_clean

“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.

For years I also did the Power Clean focusing on one powerful pull, with decent rssults (1.5 * bodyweight). Now I’m gonna focus on the traditional method and see what happens.

Good luck with the Clean and don’t shit your pants when you find out the truth on how to execute them with the article.

Cheers friend.[/quote]

I wont lie your post doesn’t seem to make sense?

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).

One problem seems to be swinging the bar out forwards. Keeping the bar travelling straight up and close to the body is something to aim for to (possibly) reduce the double acceleration.

And with regards to the quadriceps initiating the lift, I don’t the think quads are the dominant movers there. It is started in the ‘hinge’ position which is (mostly) a hamstring/glute/hips/torso movement.[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise. http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_master_the_power_clean

“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.

For years I also did the Power Clean focusing on one powerful pull, with decent rssults (1.5 * bodyweight). Now I’m gonna focus on the traditional method and see what happens.

Good luck with the Clean and don’t shit your pants when you find out the truth on how to execute them with the article.

Cheers friend.[/quote]

I wont lie your post doesn’t seem to make sense?
[/quote]

Hahaha I lol’ed

[quote]ape288 wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).

One problem seems to be swinging the bar out forwards. Keeping the bar travelling straight up and close to the body is something to aim for to (possibly) reduce the double acceleration.

And with regards to the quadriceps initiating the lift, I don’t the think quads are the dominant movers there. It is started in the ‘hinge’ position which is (mostly) a hamstring/glute/hips/torso movement.[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise. http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_master_the_power_clean

“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.

For years I also did the Power Clean focusing on one powerful pull, with decent rssults (1.5 * bodyweight). Now I’m gonna focus on the traditional method and see what happens.

Good luck with the Clean and don’t shit your pants when you find out the truth on how to execute them with the article.

Cheers friend.[/quote]

I wont lie your post doesn’t seem to make sense?
[/quote]

Hahaha I lol’ed[/quote]

First/second pull != first/second acceleration

And skimming that article he linked to didn’t show me anything to the contrary.

[quote]TheJonty wrote:

[quote]ape288 wrote:

[quote]Swolegasm wrote:

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).

One problem seems to be swinging the bar out forwards. Keeping the bar travelling straight up and close to the body is something to aim for to (possibly) reduce the double acceleration.

And with regards to the quadriceps initiating the lift, I don’t the think quads are the dominant movers there. It is started in the ‘hinge’ position which is (mostly) a hamstring/glute/hips/torso movement.[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise. http://www.T-Nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/how_to_master_the_power_clean

“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.

For years I also did the Power Clean focusing on one powerful pull, with decent rssults (1.5 * bodyweight). Now I’m gonna focus on the traditional method and see what happens.

Good luck with the Clean and don’t shit your pants when you find out the truth on how to execute them with the article.

Cheers friend.[/quote]

I wont lie your post doesn’t seem to make sense?
[/quote]

Hahaha I lol’ed[/quote]

First/second pull != first/second acceleration

And skimming that article he linked to didn’t show me anything to the contrary.[/quote]

I can’t attest to the accuracy or inaccuracy of what wrote. I didn’t read the article and that’s not what I was commenting on. I just thought Swole’s response was funny, that’s all. The OP’s response to Yarni was slightly unusual though.

“Great drive off the floor requires strong legs (especially quads) and powerful glutes” C.T.

“Get your glutes involved early in the lift to compliment quad drive and your deadlift will climb” C.T.

      Let me quote some information about the two pulls (YES, NOT ONE YOU STUBBORN NICE PEOPLE). Please read and learn this stuff is interesting.

From the Floor â?? The First Pull:
The initial pull of the bar off the floor is called the first pull phase and is essentially a deadlift.

Stand with your feet straight and hip width apart. The bar should be close to the shins with your hands (hook or double overhand grip) just outside shoulder-width apart on the bar.

Push your butt back, stick out your chest, retract and pack your shoulders, and slightly extend your neck. Your shoulders should be slightly over and in front of the bar. Look forward, take a diaphragmic (belly) breath of air and create full body tension. Stay tight and push the floor away.

What’s really important here is to maintain your spine angle with the floor until the bar just passes your knees, known as the “transition phase.” Do not attempt to lift the bar off the floor fast â?? you’ll lose the constant back angle.

You’ll notice the position of the bar at the top of the kneecaps is now the jumping position described above, but this time, the bar has some acceleration from the first pull.

Explode into the second phase by pulling yourself under the bar, controlling the receiving position in a quarter squat. If more weight is on the bar, you’ll have to pull yourself deeper under the bar because your first and second pulls will only get the bar so high off the ground, meaning that you’re pulling yourself into a deep squat to receive the bar.

With either the quarter squat or full squat, the bar should be inline with the mid-foot as you receive the bar. Stand and lock it out. You may have noticed the bar brush against your thighs during the second pull, this is known as the scoop.

The idea now would be to practice, practice, and practice. Dan John quotes Dan Gable, a wrestling Olympic gold medalist, in Never Let Go: “If it’s important, do it every day.”

Use sub-maximal loads and focus on timing and the smoothness of the lifts. Don’t worry about weight until you’re competent with the mechanics of the clean. Sets of five would be sufficient to start.

Second Pull
Time to shoot the arrow. From this “loaded” position, jut your knees forward as you start to stand. Keep your chest over the bar as long as possible. You’ll reach a point where you’re in the “pocket” position with your torso just approaching a position behind the bar. At this point, jump!

Explosively extend your hips, knees and ankles! Let the bar travel upward but keep your arms straight. Let your shoulders shrug as in the description for the “pocket position” above. This is known as a “low clean pull.”

The “triple extension” is the driving force behind the clean. If you haven’t already figured it out, the bar is the arrow, which shoots straight up. Practice this sequence, now letting the bar float up toward the shoulders by allowing the elbows to bend. This is known as a high clean pull. Do not try to upright row the bar!

This is one of the trickiest maneuvers to master â?? going from the hang position to the pocket position in one smooth motion.

This article is by T-Nation Contributor Jon-Erik Kawamoto published on 02.15.2012

It’s been my understanding that you can pull as fast as you want for the first pull as long as you maintain position for the second pull. For a lot of people, pulling too hard off the floor causes the bar to get away from them.

I’ve been taught to cue as a brush up the thighs or as a sweep back towards the hip. Some lifters I know pull by accelerating off a hard contact at the hips. Either way, there’s a notable difference in speed off the floor versus towards the top of the pull.

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
It’s been my understanding that you can pull as fast as you want for the first pull as long as you maintain position for the second pull. For a lot of people, pulling too hard off the floor causes the bar to get away from them.

I’ve been taught to cue as a brush up the thighs or as a sweep back towards the hip. Some lifters I know pull by accelerating off a hard contact at the hips. Either way, there’s a notable difference in speed off the floor versus towards the top of the pull.[/quote]

According to traditional Olympt lifting you SHOULD NOT lift the first pull as fast as possible because it will be harder to ADD SPEED to the bar that is ascending with the second pull (If you make the bar ascend too fast with the first lift adding speed with the second will be harder).

For me it sounds like a fragile idea, it does not convince me totally. But that’s how it’s taught in Olympic Lifting academies.

I’d look at it this way. The limiting factor for the olympic lifts is not in getting it from the ground to the hips, it’s instead from the hips to the catch. If it were the other way, everyone would be cleaning as much as they could deadlift.

If you can rip from the floor and still have a great second phase, then by all means do it. For what it’s worth, it’s not that you’re necessarily pulling it slow off the floor, it’s just that it needs to put the bar in the correct spot for the second part of the pull.

Pat Mendes shows how fast the bar can come off the ground. He might not be the best example of form, but the proof is in the pudding as they say. No one cleans 200KG by accident.

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise.
“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.[/quote]

To me it is stating that the clean (from a mechanical viewpoint) can be distinguished as having 2 parts - but this fact is qualified with the additional assertion of both distinct parts being CONTINUOUS.

To me, this means that although you will indeed have to pull on the bar twice (although you state that you used to do them with 1 pull which completely contradicts the article??) - the bar will have to maintain an even or accelerating (to whatever degree) speed - therefore if the bar either doesn’t change speed or the speed steadily increases, I don’t see any logical need for the term ‘2nd acceleration’. Such an idea to me suggests that a loss of speed has to be made up to compensate for bad technique. It’s all semantics anyway I’m sure.

However I do think combining this clunky mix of pulls and body movements with one smooth, accurate (maybe even poetic) bar movement (i.e. technique/skill) is of course a HUGE part of the challenge in weightlifting (raw power aside). Unfortunately, the neuromuscular side is not really mentioned in the article you linked to.

[quote]XiaoNio wrote:
It’s been my understanding that you can pull as fast as you want for the first pull as long as you maintain position for the second pull. For a lot of people, pulling too hard off the floor causes the bar to get away from them.

I’ve been taught to cue as a brush up the thighs or as a sweep back towards the hip. Some lifters I know pull by accelerating off a hard contact at the hips. Either way, there’s a notable difference in speed off the floor versus towards the top of the pull.[/quote]

I think this is a great way to put it.

[quote]yarni wrote:

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise.
“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.[/quote]

To me it is stating that the clean (from a mechanical viewpoint) can be distinguished as having 2 parts - but this fact is qualified with the additional assertion of both distinct parts being CONTINUOUS.

To me, this means that although you will indeed have to pull on the bar twice (although you state that you used to do them with 1 pull which completely contradicts the article??) - the bar will have to maintain an even or accelerating (to whatever degree) speed - therefore if the bar either doesn’t change speed or the speed steadily increases, I don’t see any logical need for the term ‘2nd acceleration’. Such an idea to me suggests that a loss of speed has to be made up to compensate for bad technique. It’s all semantics anyway I’m sure.

However I do think combining this clunky mix of pulls and body movements with one smooth, accurate (maybe even poetic) bar movement (i.e. technique/skill) is of course a HUGE part of the challenge in weightlifting (raw power aside). Unfortunately, the neuromuscular side is not really mentioned in the article you linked to.[/quote]

I used to do cleans focusing on one acceleration because no one taught me how to do cleans and that seemed for me the best way and numbers added plus I wasn’t getting injured so I didn’t question it. That’s why this topic and the article is so appealing to me.

You don’t see a logical point for a 2nd acceleration.

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:

[quote]trap_builder wrote:

[quote]yarni wrote:
Hey, someone will correct me here in no time if Im wrong, but my understanding is that the bar should start slow and pick up speed as it rises, creating one continuous flow of acceleration. If there seems to be 2 stages of acceleration, that would seem to indicate an inefficient use of energy (as you’re allowing the bar to slow down halfway through the lift, then giving it a second pull).[/quote]

Check out this article, you’re in for a big surprise.
“In the clean, there is the first pull and then the second pull. They are continuous, but distinct,” says strength coach Charles Staley.[/quote]

To me it is stating that the clean (from a mechanical viewpoint) can be distinguished as having 2 parts - but this fact is qualified with the additional assertion of both distinct parts being CONTINUOUS.

To me, this means that although you will indeed have to pull on the bar twice (although you state that you used to do them with 1 pull which completely contradicts the article??) - the bar will have to maintain an even or accelerating (to whatever degree) speed - therefore if the bar either doesn’t change speed or the speed steadily increases, I don’t see any logical need for the term ‘2nd acceleration’. Such an idea to me suggests that a loss of speed has to be made up to compensate for bad technique. It’s all semantics anyway I’m sure.

However I do think combining this clunky mix of pulls and body movements with one smooth, accurate (maybe even poetic) bar movement (i.e. technique/skill) is of course a HUGE part of the challenge in weightlifting (raw power aside). Unfortunately, the neuromuscular side is not really mentioned in the article you linked to.[/quote]

I used to do cleans focusing on one acceleration because no one taught me how to do cleans and that seemed for me the best way and numbers added plus I wasn’t getting injured so I didn’t question it. That’s why this topic and the article is so appealing to me.

You don’t see a logical point for a 2nd acceleration.
[/quote]

People really OVER COMPLICATE THINGS and over analyse things.

When you were doing one acceleration did you sweep the bar in and did the bar make contact with hips/ thighs?

Just pull the bar, pull it hard and keep pulling on the bar. Why pull slower than you can IF you can maintain position? It is pointless if you can maintain good position. If you can’t then yes slow it down a bit. Keep the bar close, pull it in towards your hips/ upper thighs, pull the bar hard and then slam under it. JOB DONE.

It’s like all the CERT guys that teach the DOUBLE KNEE BEND/ TRIPLE EXTENSION. Just pull the bar close to your thighs/ waist and keep pulilng the bar and get under it, if you drive properly with your legs your hips will extend properly and you will do the double knee bend properly, not that it actually matters as long as your hips move properly.

Koing