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Clean Without Front Squat?


#1

Is it possible to have a high power clean without front squatting.

It's just I back squat and power clean and I wanna know cause i dont like doing front squats anymore


#2

Why “don’t you like” doing front squats any more?

Since a power clean does not involve much of a front squat, sure you could have a “high” power clean whatever you mean by that. How high is it now, and how high do you want it to be?


#3

It isn’t very high seeing as i only weigh 59kg

But my max power clean was 80kg. I pull it up to my chest before dropping under it.

Also I wanna know how many reps/sets should be done to increase power cleans. Its just im not sure if I’m actually becoming more powerful or I have just been adding weight without any gains


#4

Come on now, why don’t you like doing front squats any more?

I’m far from an expert on this, but I think the people who are the best at cleans and power cleans usually use low reps. Thibaudeau likes sets of 3 reps. Lots of sets of 3 reps. With a decent weight.


#5

So I have to keep to the low reps thanks

I started doing front squats because i had no rack at home and had to power clean and then front squat. I know they’re easier to do but I find its more tiring especially when holding it up. It’s just i love back squatting more.


#6

you don’t need to front squat to powerclean. that is kind of the point of powercleans instead of full cleans. to eliminate the squat component. what do you mean by ‘high’? do you mean pulling the bar to your delts with minimal knee bend or do you mean lots of weight on the bar or do you mean some combination of both?

it will be possible (for the appropriately strong and technically proficient) to squatclean more than they powerclean. the legs (when properly trained) can stand up weights that the body can’t propel high enough to rack on the delts.

just because you prefer back squats doesn’t mean you shouldn’t front squat too… often the things we like the least are the things we stand to profit the most by.

that being said, depends on what your goals are etc.

(and i’ll admit that i front squat but don’t back squat because i don’t like back squats lol)


#7

[quote]clean and squat wrote:
Is it possible to have a high power clean without front squatting.

It’s just I back squat and power clean and I wanna know cause i dont like doing front squats anymore[/quote]

Your leg and core strength will increase by squatting (front or back).

You will improve your explosive strength by doing power cleans (ESPECIALLY power cleans as they require more speed than the full clean.).

If you want to increase your strength, you must squat (front or back). If you want to increase your power clean, you must ALSO power clean.

Is it possible to increase your power clean WITHOUT squatting? Yes. It’s “possible”, but VERY inefficient.

Is it possible to increase your squat WITHOUT power cleaning? YES! Absolutely. Power cleans CAN help, but you don’t need them.

Is it possible to increase your power clean by only squatting and NOT doing power cleans at all? YES. In fact, you’re actually better off doing that than just power cleaning and nothing else.

I hope that helps.


#8

(ESPECIALLY power cleans as they require more speed than the full clean.).

?

Is it possible to increase your power clean WITHOUT squatting? Yes. It’s “possible”, but VERY inefficient.

?

Is it possible to increase your power clean by only squatting and NOT doing power cleans at all? YES. In fact, you’re actually better off doing that than just power cleaning and nothing else.

?

where are you getting this from?


#9

[quote]clean and squat wrote:
It isn’t very high seeing as i only weigh 59kg

But my max power clean was 80kg. I pull it up to my chest before dropping under it.

Also I wanna know how many reps/sets should be done to increase power cleans. Its just im not sure if I’m actually becoming more powerful or I have just been adding weight without any gains[/quote]

Sorry I missed this post.

Power is speed/strength. So if you hold the height you are pulling it to constant (e.g., your chest) then you are getting more powerful if you either 1) Move the same weight faster or 2) Move more weight at the same speed.

What set / rep scheme are you doing now? If you have stalled then mixing it up a little might be enough to get things moving again.


#10

[quote]alexus wrote:

(ESPECIALLY power cleans as they require more speed than the full clean.).

?

Is it possible to increase your power clean WITHOUT squatting? Yes. It’s “possible”, but VERY inefficient.

?

Is it possible to increase your power clean by only squatting and NOT doing power cleans at all? YES. In fact, you’re actually better off doing that than just power cleaning and nothing else.

?

where are you getting this from?
[/quote]

My wisdom.


#11

do you mean you thought about it and it seemed to make sense to you?

because i thought about it and it didn’t make sense to me. so… if you had a reputable source then i’d be interested in following those ideas up to see if they offered an explanation or rationale or some statistics or something.

seems to me…

  • powercleans require more speed than full cleans

speed of the bar or speed of the persons movement around the bar?

  • is it possible to increase your powerclean without squatting

Rippetoe’s starting strength program has powercleans and back squats (no front squats). i don’t actually see how front squatting (quads primarily) will particularly help the powerclean (hip drive primarily when done correctly).

  • is it possible to increase your powerclean by only squatting and not powercleaning - yes

Powercleans require technique. The technique is different from a front squat. I don’t see how front squatting more will make your powerclean go up (make your clean go up if your limiting factor is getting out the hole - yes. making your hip drive more powerful - no.)

Rippetoe has some stuff to say about why back squat and why not front squat. I’m not saying he is right 100% of the time for all goals etc. But your ideas seem odd to me…


#12

I gotcha. I’ll crarify things a bit more.

Power cleans require more speed than full cleans. More EXPLOSION. Lifters ducking under the bar is agility. I am talking about the actual POWER that is generated and the velocity of your own movement.

I wasn’t trying to argue if back squats are better than front squats or the other way around. I honestly don’t know where you got that from. :stuck_out_tongue:

I believe increasing your squatting strength (front or back) WILL increase your olympic lifts (either the classical lifts or the variations of the lifts) AS LONG as you don’t neglect training the olympic lifts themselves. Is it POSSIBLE to improve your olympic lifts WITHOUT training the olympic lifts? YES. But it’s very inefficient.

I hope that answered your questions.


#13

Thanks a lot guys.

Well Im only going twice a week so I am now front squatting and back squatting now. Along with Power clean and clean pulls and push presses.

Well Im doing low rep now and now that I’m front squatting at least I am getting the confidence just incase I don’t pull it up high enough.


#14

[quote]ViKtoricus wrote:

Power cleans require more speed than full cleans. More EXPLOSION. Lifters ducking under the bar is agility. I am talking about the actual POWER that is generated and the velocity of your own movement.[/quote]

Gotta somewhat disagree here. The biggest difference is bar height. You have to pull it higher for a power clean (hence the requirement that the catch must be above parallel). Oly clean is a much more technical lift because you have to get your body all the way under the bar, but it allows for more weight because the bar is caught much lower to the ground.

[quote]I wasn’t trying to argue if back squats are better than front squats or the other way around. I honestly don’t know where you got that from. :stuck_out_tongue:

I believe increasing your squatting strength (front or back) WILL increase your olympic lifts (either the classical lifts or the variations of the lifts) AS LONG as you don’t neglect training the olympic lifts themselves. Is it POSSIBLE to improve your olympic lifts WITHOUT training the olympic lifts? YES. But it’s very inefficient.

[/quote]
High-bar back squats most effectively mimic the first pull. The torso is too upright in the FS and too forward in the low-bar BS.


#15

Do olympic lifters back squat to help with the first pull or is it for other stuff as well?

Because don’t they just do clean pulls to help with speed of the first pull


#16

specificity is usually such that the best thing you can do to improve x is to do x.
so you wanna powerclean more weight - do more powercleans
you wanna back squat more weight - do more back squats etc.

sometimes though there can be a weak link. some kind of assistance exercise might help you improve the main lift because it fixes up the weak link (e.g., i find that weighted planks strengthens my abdominals which results in a better front squat since i don’t fold forwards before my legs give up). this kind of work relies on your having good movement patterns etc with the main lift, though.

best thing to help with the first pull is doing first pulls.

there is some controversy over the use of the back squat for olympic weightlifters. having a hooge back squat doesn’t necessarily translate to cleaning or snatching a lot of weight (because of the technical nature of cleans and snatches). front squats are more similar to cleans (with the bar in the rack position) but similarly having a hooge front squat doesn’t necessarily translate to cleaning a lot of weight (because of the technical nature of cleans).

people get pinned in the bottom of a clean with one hell of a lot less than their max front squat. because they didn’t hit a tight bottom position when they dropped under and / or they aren’t fast enough to ride the bounce out the hole. squat strength does not necessarily translate to big olympic lifts.

also… having strong powercleans and snatches doesn’t necessarily translate to having a particularly strong full clean and snatch. because once again the technical demands are different. it is one thing to do a decent first and second pull… it is much much harder to add a fast decent into a tight bottom position cleanly riding the bounce out AFTER full extension… and the jerk is something else again…

so… in a technically proficient lifter… depending on their weaknesses… squatting might help their cleaning or snatching (if they have trouble with standing them up). powercleaning / powersnatching might help their cleaning or snatching (if they have trouble with extending fully / pulling the bar high enough to drop under). if one isn’t technically proficient with the full lifts then focusing on squat strength or powerclean / powersnatch strength isn’t likely to help the full lifts, though. what is most likely to help the full lifts is doing the full lifts. or doing partial versions of the full lifts (e.g., first pulls, power versions, squats) not with a ‘move the most weight’ mentality but rather with a ‘developing technical proficiency in a part with an eye to coordinating it into technical proficiency with the whole’ eye.

but opinions vary, i suppose.


#17

your initial question made me think that you were interested in powercleans rather than full cleans. or did you have an eye to ‘getting progressively lower under the bar as the weight gets heavier’? i’m very dubious about that strategy working…

if you only care about powercleans (not full cleans) i don’t see how front squats are relevant.