Clean vs Dirty Foods?

[quote]AnabolicBob wrote:
If your at a deficient in calories and you sub 60 grams of carbs from oats with 60 grams of carbs from pop tarts there will be absolutely zero difference guys! Now, your will power may be tested to not eat another one, BUT at the same time may leave you more satisfied with your meal and you will likely stick to your diet longer.[/quote]

True, but i don’t consider oats to really be that different from pop-tarts. It all turns into sugar fairly quickly (which if training, isn’t necessarily a bad thing for replenishing glucose). Some people have a different definition of clean foods, but that is my personal they are both starchy cereal grains that aren’t ideal for human nutrition and the micronutrients (oat and wheat) are about the same (small difference on account of the sugary coating on the pop-tarts.

What would make a difference would be subbing (either) for something like sweet potato or squash. Still these are starches, but they are more “clean”. More micronutrients and no anti-nutrients. In the long run this would make a difference. Over a few weeks or a meso-cycle, probably there would be little to no difference. The differences in terms of effect on blood sugar would be slightly better in my example, but not much different between oats and pop-tart, BUT i’m assuming the clean vs dirty debate to be about regular meals, rather than peri-workout nutrition.

[quote]ryanbCXG wrote:
I’ve been dropping fat while eating ice cream and cereal in large amounts every night. I wash it so its all good[/quote]

Not spiking blood sugar many times per day allows this. Sugar once per day has little ill effect, if you are training. If you weren’t training, or performing a less glycogen depleting style or work out (across a week’s span), it would be a different story. Eating many meals a day and supplementing with sugar on top of that is a recipe for fat gain and set the stage for chronic illness. Obviously, you understand the meaning of “earning your cals.” You are ‘training’ your fuel tank. Makes sense to me.

If I may put forward a different argument, processed foods tend to contain more toxins which slow down the liver and thyroid., and no doubt have a lot of nasty long term effects. If my only concern was body comp, then I’d eat heaps of shit because I can without gaining body fat, but you only get 1 body, so I’ll maintain a certain amount of respect for mine.

[quote]Mitch87 wrote:
If I may put forward a different argument, processed foods tend to contain more toxins which slow down the liver and thyroid., and no doubt have a lot of nasty long term effects. If my only concern was body comp, then I’d eat heaps of shit because I can without gaining body fat, but you only get 1 body, so I’ll maintain a certain amount of respect for mine. [/quote]

So, you believe that eating “dirty” foods can result in hypothyroidism… but that this won’t have any effect on body composition?

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

talk about taking science and willpower out of the equation. Not to mention ignoring the well thought out points posted above. either further clarify your point or don’t post stuff like that, because it just added nothing.

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
Its all the same to your body. Eat 5000 cals of grilled chicken and you will gain weight. Eat 1000 cals of cookies and you will lose weight.[/quote] No shit. This isn’t a valid argument tho. Think about it.

[quote]…But its hard to eat a lot of clean food, and easy to eat a ton of dirty food because its so calorie dense.[/quote] No shit. still getting nowhere with the valid argument thing

[quote]So clean and dirty don’t mean anything[/quote] wtf? you’ve already reached a conclusion?

[quote]its more about foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily, [/quote] can you explain what u are getting at with the phrase “its [sic] more about”? What’s more about? What does this mean? The only other part of the sentence “foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily” is the basic premise of this thread. I’m pretty sure that’s not even a sentence.

Where is your argument, or are you just trying to annoy people? Next time, think of a point before you type. Then work out a good way to explain it. Then, voila – you’ll have something to add![/quote]

there was a valid point there, read more actually science than forums, its good for you. But you rather get your panties in a bunch over typeos, than see the point. The point was clean vs dirty is all bs, as is paleo, because the human body processes for the same way. all protein gets broken down to aminos all carbs get broken down to glucose. So eating clean works because you eat less, that’s the only reason it does work.

IIFYM is awesome as long as you don’t do something like:
100 grams fat from crisco
200 grams protein from gelatin
300 grams carbs from malt liquor

then yes, you need to eat “cleaner” at that point.

also tracking carbs and fat by week, and giving some allowance as to the ratio of both is great. I think that’ll catch on as an IIFYM 2.0 of sorts

Bulletprooftiger has posted a lot of good stuff in this thread.

These threads typically suck because people take a “clean” diet to mean that you limit food choices and never consume sugar, and other people take “dirty” to mean that you don’t even give green vegetables a look. Both are misrepresentations.

Tiger has already said pretty much everything I could want to. I’d like to simply add that we need to move away from the traditional idea of food choices only impacting us on the scale and move towards thinking about food choices in terms of;

  1. Calories and weight gain/loss
  2. Body composition effects (timing your nutrients, carb choices, GI etc)
  3. Functionality (how it fits into your lifestyle, any positive or negative effects on the body such as digestion or inflammation)
  4. Long-term health benefits (cancer prevention for example)

Three and four are still new areas of research and I guess it depends on how much faith you place on science and on the foods. All I can say is when I am consuming lots of vegetables and some wild salmon everyday I have more energy and my body feels lighter and easier to move.

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
typeos
[/quote] you have ideas and that’s great. consistency works, so stick to what you do.

I think eating good quality meat, preferably organic and avoiding the really shit cuts like Mcdonalds makes a big difference

[quote]krazylarry wrote: clean vs dirty is all bs, AS IS PALEO, because the human body processes for the same way.[/quote] Then please explain this to me: http://discovermagazine.com/2004/oct/inuit-paradox#.UjSkSsaTheU

[quote] there was a valid point there, read more actually science than forums, its good for you.[/quote] Okay I over-reacted before, but you honestly didn’t have a valid point

[quote]You wanna talk about read more science and less forums? [/quote] Alright Mr. Science. I assume you will love to digest this as well:

^have something good to say about it and we can talk

Notice the part of the article (or from your nutrition text!) where it discusses that "Vitamin A – also known as retinol – plays a vital role in strengthening our immune system, protecting us against common infections … [and] also helps to maintain healthy skin and MUCUS LININGS The article also points out (as do numerous other studies in peer reviewed journals like the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition) that MANY people (about half) are terrible at converting beta-carotene to retinol. So to set the stage -

  1. we live in an environment with constant bombardment from toxic chemicals, weakening our immune systems
  2. our collective diet, eating more and more inflammatory foods (yes, some macros are digested differently). WGA is the known cause of physical destruction of micro vili
  3. vitamin a deficiency is rampant, as a result of eating less wild food (grass fed is certainly better!).

Being deficient in vitamin A, and foolishly thinking you can convert beta carotene to vitamin A, without proof that you are not one of the half of people unable to do so, might just put you in a vicious cycle of gut damage (unhealthy lining) and putting you at a highly increased risk of damage from eating a diet high in wheat and sugar.

[quote]all protein gets broken down to aminos all carbs get broken down to glucose.[/quote] true

[quote]So eating clean works because you eat less, that’s the only reason it does work.
[/quote] False /pwnd