T Nation

Clean vs Dirty Foods?


#1

i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat "clean"

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these "clean" foods, provides better results than fitting "junk" into ones diet assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.


#2

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote]
My understanding of the eating clean vs eating dirty thing is as follows.

“Clean” foods are generally non/minimally processed which supposedly are processed better by the human body.
Generally these are “whole” food choices like fruits veggies meat eggs and nuts.

“Dirty” foods are generally highly processed with questionable/nutritionally suspect ingredients.
Generally these are the types of foods you would find at McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell.

IMO, the flaw with your proposed scenario is the cals and macros.
“Dirty bulkers” generally aren’t counting every calorie and macro.

Another issue, one that I admittedly cannot prove but fully believe, is that the meat from a Mc Donald’s double quarter pounder most definitely does not have the same macro/caloric breakdown as a home made burger with 1/2 a pound of grass fed organic beef.

I believe, and again I cannot prove it or care to prove it, that most human bodies will process 50grams of carbs from sweet potatoes better than it would process 50 grams of carbs from chocolate chip cookies.

Just my thoughts.


#3

Smashing has it. The dirty foods have less quality per amount than similarly “cleaner” foods. You can eat a cheeseburger worth 800 calorise and get ‘x’ carbs, proteins, and fats, and eat lean ground beef and oats and get larger quantities of your desirables and less of the undesirables (not all fat is desirable and there’s a crap-ton of fat in a cheeseburger).

Then consider vitamins and the other “small” things you need that you won’t get from dirty food but get in high quanity in cleaner foods.

Someone could eat McD’s every day and stay within caloric requirements and probably stay lean, but I bet their heart will be shit in a few years from clogging.


#4

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote]

I’ve actually gotten better results eating “dirty” everyday and I suspect this is because of satiety, sanity, practicality AND because many so-called dirty foods are actually more nutritious than so called clean foods!

Oatmeal is a so-called clean food and dry cereal is considered a dirty food. Meanwhile there are some dry cereals higher in nutrients than oatmeal when calories are accounted for.


#5

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote]
My understanding of the eating clean vs eating dirty thing is as follows.

“Clean” foods are generally non/minimally processed which supposedly are processed better by the human body.
Generally these are “whole” food choices like fruits veggies meat eggs and nuts.

“Dirty” foods are generally highly processed with questionable/nutritionally suspect ingredients.
Generally these are the types of foods you would find at McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell.

IMO, the flaw with your proposed scenario is the cals and macros.
“Dirty bulkers” generally aren’t counting every calorie and macro.

Another issue, one that I admittedly cannot prove but fully believe, is that the meat from a Mc Donald’s double quarter pounder most definitely does not have the same macro/caloric breakdown as a home made burger with 1/2 a pound of grass fed organic beef.

I believe, and again I cannot prove it or care to prove it, that most human bodies will process 50grams of carbs from sweet potatoes better than it would process 50 grams of carbs from chocolate chip cookies.

Just my thoughts.[/quote]

the problem with the definition of clean is its stupid.

people will say only eat good whole foods not processed crap, but have no problem with someone drinking a protein shake which is obliviously heavily processed.


#6

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Smashingweights wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote]
My understanding of the eating clean vs eating dirty thing is as follows.

“Clean” foods are generally non/minimally processed which supposedly are processed better by the human body.
Generally these are “whole” food choices like fruits veggies meat eggs and nuts.

“Dirty” foods are generally highly processed with questionable/nutritionally suspect ingredients.
Generally these are the types of foods you would find at McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Taco Bell.

IMO, the flaw with your proposed scenario is the cals and macros.
“Dirty bulkers” generally aren’t counting every calorie and macro.

Another issue, one that I admittedly cannot prove but fully believe, is that the meat from a Mc Donald’s double quarter pounder most definitely does not have the same macro/caloric breakdown as a home made burger with 1/2 a pound of grass fed organic beef.

I believe, and again I cannot prove it or care to prove it, that most human bodies will process 50grams of carbs from sweet potatoes better than it would process 50 grams of carbs from chocolate chip cookies.

Just my thoughts.[/quote]

the problem with the definition of clean is its stupid.

people will say only eat good whole foods not processed crap, but have no problem with someone drinking a protein shake which is obliviously heavily processed. [/quote]
Oh I agree that the premise is a bit flawed but that is just my understanding of the two terms.


#7

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
… assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote]
Next lets discuss what weighs more a pound of feathers or a pound of gold.


#8

Energy in vs out is the #1 body recomp variable by a huge margin. However food choices which I’d say is #2, should also be considered.

A processed carb is no different that a sweet potato carb. Your body will need X units of insulin to clear X number of glucose molecules.

But what the only macros matter crowd doesnt realize is all the other crap that piggy backs off that hostess Twinkie.

Make the cornerstone of your nutrition plan quality foods, but it doesn’t mean ice cream, pizza or cookies will kill your gains or make you fat.


#9

[quote]giograves wrote:
Energy in vs out is the #1 body recomp variable by a huge margin. However food choices which I’d say is #2, should also be considered.

A processed carb is no different that a sweet potato carb. Your body will need X units of insulin to clear X number of glucose molecules.

But what the only macros matter crowd doesnt realize is all the other crap that piggy backs off that hostess Twinkie.

Make the cornerstone of your nutrition plan quality foods, but it doesn’t mean ice cream, pizza or cookies will kill your gains or make you fat.[/quote]

we pretty much agree man.


#10

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet[/quote]

You said fitting “junk” into ones diet. Nothing wrong with that. This assumes there is overall balance and rationality to the plan. Cheat foods, like Brick said, provide sanity/comfort, etc. There was a recent study showing that beer consumption is good for you simply for the reason that the beer drinkers like beer.

[quote]…assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote] Absolutely if macros and micros are the same there will be minimal difference. The issue is that “fitting” “dirty” foods into the diet likely:

  1. does not have the same micro nutrients. training obviously places additional demands on the body. Many people are deficient in many micro-nutrients to begin with
  2. usually contain much higher amounts of inflammatory oils (trans fats, and corn/soy oils)
  3. usually are much more contaminated (chemicals and or germs)

Clearly, not having a balanced diet can present many of the above three issues as well. A person shouldn’t spend a large amount of time worrying about their diet, but educating yourself about your food supply is critical too. Bodybuilding is the name of the game, so you cannot disregard health (and no, I am not saying that occasional deserts or a trip to McDonald’s will harm your physique)

The other point I’d like to make is that many people notice they get visibly leaner by removing gluten containing foods from their diet.


#11

Clean is ultimately better imo
Dirty is usually quicker, easier and more calorie dense

I try to eat fairly clean and sprinkle in double hamburgers and KFC to get me the calories I need when I see fit.


#12

Its all the same to your body. Eat 5000 cals of grilled chicken and you will gain weight. Eat 1000 cals of cookies and you will lose weight. But its hard to eat a lot of clean food, and easy to eat a ton of dirty food because its so calorie dense. So clean and dirty don’t mean anything, its more about foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily,


#13

talk about taking science and willpower out of the equation. Not to mention ignoring the well thought out points posted above. either further clarify your point or don’t post stuff like that, because it just added nothing.

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
Its all the same to your body. Eat 5000 cals of grilled chicken and you will gain weight. Eat 1000 cals of cookies and you will lose weight.[/quote] No shit. This isn’t a valid argument tho. Think about it.

[quote]…But its hard to eat a lot of clean food, and easy to eat a ton of dirty food because its so calorie dense.[/quote] No shit. still getting nowhere with the valid argument thing

[quote]So clean and dirty don’t mean anything[/quote] wtf? you’ve already reached a conclusion?

[quote]its more about foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily, [/quote] can you explain what u are getting at with the phrase “its [sic] more about”? What’s more about? What does this mean? The only other part of the sentence “foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily” is the basic premise of this thread. I’m pretty sure that’s not even a sentence.

Where is your argument, or are you just trying to annoy people? Next time, think of a point before you type. Then work out a good way to explain it. Then, voila – you’ll have something to add!


#14

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

talk about taking science and willpower out of the equation. Not to mention ignoring the well thought out points posted above. either further clarify your point or don’t post stuff like that, because it just added nothing.

[quote]krazylarry wrote:
Its all the same to your body. Eat 5000 cals of grilled chicken and you will gain weight. Eat 1000 cals of cookies and you will lose weight.[/quote] No shit. This isn’t a valid argument tho. Think about it.

[quote]…But its hard to eat a lot of clean food, and easy to eat a ton of dirty food because its so calorie dense.[/quote] No shit. still getting nowhere with the valid argument thing

[quote]So clean and dirty don’t mean anything[/quote] wtf? you’ve already reached a conclusion?

[quote]its more about foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily, [/quote] can you explain what u are getting at with the phrase “its [sic] more about”? What’s more about? What does this mean? The only other part of the sentence “foods that are lower cal and filling, vs calorie dense food that can be over eaten easily” is the basic premise of this thread. I’m pretty sure that’s not even a sentence.

Where is your argument, or are you just trying to annoy people? Next time, think of a point before you type. Then work out a good way to explain it. Then, voila – you’ll have something to add![/quote]
Tiger, have a Snickers.

The whole point of this thread is useless given the parameters put forth. Many people have already touched on that.


#15

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet[/quote]

You said fitting “junk” into ones diet. Nothing wrong with that. This assumes there is overall balance and rationality to the plan. Cheat foods, like Brick said, provide sanity/comfort, etc. There was a recent study showing that beer consumption is good for you simply for the reason that the beer drinkers like beer.

[quote]…assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote] Absolutely if macros and micros are the same there will be minimal difference. The issue is that “fitting” “dirty” foods into the diet likely:

  1. does not have the same micro nutrients. training obviously places additional demands on the body. Many people are deficient in many micro-nutrients to begin with
  2. usually contain much higher amounts of inflammatory oils (trans fats, and corn/soy oils)
  3. usually are much more contaminated (chemicals and or germs)

Clearly, not having a balanced diet can present many of the above three issues as well. A person shouldn’t spend a large amount of time worrying about their diet, but educating yourself about your food supply is critical too. Bodybuilding is the name of the game, so you cannot disregard health (and no, I am not saying that occasional deserts or a trip to McDonald’s will harm your physique)

The other point I’d like to make is that many people notice they get visibly leaner by removing gluten containing foods from their diet.
[/quote]

Good post.

Some other stuff…

I can’t understand why some foods are labelled as “dirty” or “cheat”. For example, for lunch today I had leftover turkey sausage, homemade tomato sauce (whatever concoction my 1/4 Italian fiance uses to make it, sometimes from fresh plum tomatoes, sometimes with processed tomatoes), and artichoke-and-cheese ravioli from Trader Joe’s.

There are actually people who consider a meal like that to be a “cheat”.

Same goes for pizza, lasagna, or whatever.

Take lasagna for example, which contains:

meat
cheese
pasta
tomato sauce.

Take pizza for example, perhaps my favorite from a place here, Buffalo Chicken pizza.
Ingredients:

dough
chicken (probably some flour on this here)
tomato sauce, hot sauce
blue cheese dressing
cheese

What is the inherent problem with any of these ingredients and what is so harmful about any of them individually? Pretty much nothing. It’s just that somehow, all these ingredients making a recipe add up to a “cheat meal” (I’m disregarding the whole gluten deal).


#16

If your at a deficient in calories and you sub 60 grams of carbs from oats with 60 grams of carbs from pop tarts there will be absolutely zero difference guys! Now, your will power may be tested to not eat another one, BUT at the same time may leave you more satisfied with your meal and you will likely stick to your diet longer.


#17

[quote]JLone wrote:

Tiger, have a Snickers. [/quote]
LOL thanks


#18

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet[/quote]

You said fitting “junk” into ones diet. Nothing wrong with that. This assumes there is overall balance and rationality to the plan. Cheat foods, like Brick said, provide sanity/comfort, etc. There was a recent study showing that beer consumption is good for you simply for the reason that the beer drinkers like beer.

[quote]…assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote] Absolutely if macros and micros are the same there will be minimal difference. The issue is that “fitting” “dirty” foods into the diet likely:

  1. does not have the same micro nutrients. training obviously places additional demands on the body. Many people are deficient in many micro-nutrients to begin with
  2. usually contain much higher amounts of inflammatory oils (trans fats, and corn/soy oils)
  3. usually are much more contaminated (chemicals and or germs)

Clearly, not having a balanced diet can present many of the above three issues as well. A person shouldn’t spend a large amount of time worrying about their diet, but educating yourself about your food supply is critical too. Bodybuilding is the name of the game, so you cannot disregard health (and no, I am not saying that occasional deserts or a trip to McDonald’s will harm your physique)

The other point I’d like to make is that many people notice they get visibly leaner by removing gluten containing foods from their diet.
[/quote]

Good post.

Some other stuff…

I can’t understand why some foods are labelled as “dirty” or “cheat”. For example, for lunch today I had leftover turkey sausage, homemade tomato sauce (whatever concoction my 1/4 Italian fiance uses to make it, sometimes from fresh plum tomatoes, sometimes with processed tomatoes), and artichoke-and-cheese ravioli from Trader Joe’s.

There are actually people who consider a meal like that to be a “cheat”.

Same goes for pizza, lasagna, or whatever.

Take lasagna for example, which contains:

meat
cheese
pasta
tomato sauce.

Take pizza for example, perhaps my favorite from a place here, Buffalo Chicken pizza.
Ingredients:

dough
chicken (probably some flour on this here)
tomato sauce, hot sauce
blue cheese dressing
cheese

What is the inherent problem with any of these ingredients and what is so harmful about any of them individually? Pretty much nothing. It’s just that somehow, all these ingredients making a recipe add up to a “cheat meal” (I’m disregarding the whole gluten deal). [/quote]

I think cheat meals happen when you don’t count macros at all. For instance if you make lasagna, you can control the portions of each ingredient and roughly guess the macros. Even if you buy a pizza at trader joes, you could look at the nutrition info on the box. But if you get pizza delivery, chinese take out, or what have you, you don’t really how much of what you’re eating


#19

[quote]Facepalm_Death wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]BulletproofTiger wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:
i keep constantly hearing people saying stuff like you are guaranteed better results if you eat “clean”

can someone honestly tell me how simply eating these “clean” foods, provides better results than fitting “junk” into ones diet[/quote]

You said fitting “junk” into ones diet. Nothing wrong with that. This assumes there is overall balance and rationality to the plan. Cheat foods, like Brick said, provide sanity/comfort, etc. There was a recent study showing that beer consumption is good for you simply for the reason that the beer drinkers like beer.

[quote]…assuming all macros and micro nutrients are the same.[/quote] Absolutely if macros and micros are the same there will be minimal difference. The issue is that “fitting” “dirty” foods into the diet likely:

  1. does not have the same micro nutrients. training obviously places additional demands on the body. Many people are deficient in many micro-nutrients to begin with
  2. usually contain much higher amounts of inflammatory oils (trans fats, and corn/soy oils)
  3. usually are much more contaminated (chemicals and or germs)

Clearly, not having a balanced diet can present many of the above three issues as well. A person shouldn’t spend a large amount of time worrying about their diet, but educating yourself about your food supply is critical too. Bodybuilding is the name of the game, so you cannot disregard health (and no, I am not saying that occasional deserts or a trip to McDonald’s will harm your physique)

The other point I’d like to make is that many people notice they get visibly leaner by removing gluten containing foods from their diet.
[/quote]

Good post.

Some other stuff…

I can’t understand why some foods are labelled as “dirty” or “cheat”. For example, for lunch today I had leftover turkey sausage, homemade tomato sauce (whatever concoction my 1/4 Italian fiance uses to make it, sometimes from fresh plum tomatoes, sometimes with processed tomatoes), and artichoke-and-cheese ravioli from Trader Joe’s.

There are actually people who consider a meal like that to be a “cheat”.

Same goes for pizza, lasagna, or whatever.

Take lasagna for example, which contains:

meat
cheese
pasta
tomato sauce.

Take pizza for example, perhaps my favorite from a place here, Buffalo Chicken pizza.
Ingredients:

dough
chicken (probably some flour on this here)
tomato sauce, hot sauce
blue cheese dressing
cheese

What is the inherent problem with any of these ingredients and what is so harmful about any of them individually? Pretty much nothing. It’s just that somehow, all these ingredients making a recipe add up to a “cheat meal” (I’m disregarding the whole gluten deal). [/quote]

I think cheat meals happen when you don’t count macros at all. For instance if you make lasagna, you can control the portions of each ingredient and roughly guess the macros. Even if you buy a pizza at trader joes, you could look at the nutrition info on the box. But if you get pizza delivery, chinese take out, or what have you, you don’t really how much of what you’re eating
[/quote]

That’s true. But as i’ve expressed, I don’t count all macros. I only count protein and total caloric amount.


#20

I’ve been dropping fat while eating ice cream and cereal in large amounts every night. I wash it so its all good