T Nation

Clean and Press vs Press Ratios


#1

I was looking at Strengthlevel standards for clean and press vs press levels and I noticed that clean and press has higher standards:

BW - beg - nov - int - adv - elite (lbs)
180 - 90 - 130 - 181 - 240 - 305 < clean and press

180 - 76 - 108 - 148 - 194 - 244 < strict press

Why is C&P higher than the regular press?
I’ve noticed this myself, I feel stronger when I clean the weight before pressing it, the rep is smoother and the initial push feels easier. But I can’t figure out why, since starting from the front rack position (bar resting on front delts) has MORE rom than starting from the regular press position (usually somehwere between clavicles and chin).
I thought it had something to do with the muscles being pre-loaded and the nervous system already primed by the clean, but not sure if it makes any sense.


#2

I think you’re on the right track with the muscles being pre-loaded.

When you catch the clean, your soft tissues absorb some force. When you press, you get to rebound and use some of this force for your press.

Like in depth jumps or plyometrics. Or how you can jump higher with a little hop first.

If you like physics, check out Hooke’s Law of Elasticity.


#3

I think there is some degree of loaded tension, but… the most memorable cleans and press I ever saw was mildly like a jerk, except instead of dropping down, the space to accept the bar was created by some drifting back in the shoulders.

I think that’s what this refers to.


#4

Yep, but I was thinking that by today’s standards the C&P had a more strict execution.
The one by Alexeev also has a lot of leg drive, almost a push press, the one by Redding was closer to what I was thinking and, more recently, the ones by Klokov are exactly what I was thinking:


#5

Ok, I’m changing my Official answer. I’m going to agree with Drew. Soviet dudes used to cheat at the press.

That said, you can see the bar Bounce off dudes shoulders when Klokov racks it.


#6

I think the distinction is between what is known as the “Olympic press” vs “strict press” and clean and press refers to the competition Olympic press. When originally included in weightlifting, the press was very strict. In fact, the head referee would elevate his hand and the lifter would raise the bar accordingly.

Over time, the press degenerated into a quick lift as lumbar extension (layback) with bent knees was allowed to start the lift, and the torso layback (a second layback) at the end as it is easier to lower your body under the bar than raise it. The judging became increasingly political, and certain lifters could get away with more or less knee kick and layback. The head referee gave a start signal and sometimes as the lifter would lean back to start the knee kick, there would be no signal given until they straightened up.

It really wasn’t cheating if the judges allowed it. However, this eventually led to the elimination of the press from competition in 1972. Google Bill March, arguably one of the best pressers ever. He made an incredibly strict press with 390, at 198 bdwt., at the 1969 Senior Nationals. No leg kick or layback. I believe there are pictures out there somewhere.


#7

Related. Of course, you may have a really good/ skilled lift that’s an outlier, but it’s a nice guide for looking at where your lifts are in relation to each other.