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Clavicle Length?

I read a lot about bodybuilders needing to add more shoulder mass to create a wider look dependent on the length of their clavicles. What is a normal clavicle length? Just curious

There is no “normal clavicle length”. You hear that about some bodybuilders like Phil Heath because his are simply noticeably less wide than we usually see with many bodybuilders carrying that much muscle mass. It is all relative. Trust me, no one really puts that much focus on “clavicle length”. In fact, the only reason they mention it for bodybuilders like him and Kevin Levrone is because there isn’t much else to nitpick on their physiques.

Bodybuilding is also about illusion, not specific measurements.

Don’t you like levrones physique X?

Joe

[quote]Joe Brook wrote:
Don’t you like levrones physique X?

Joe[/quote]

I didn’t write anything about not liking Kevin Levrone. I wrote that he also had many claim that he had “small clavicles” which again is nitpicking when it comes to someone built like him.

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[quote]Professor X wrote:
Joe Brook wrote:
Don’t you like levrones physique X?

Joe

I didn’t write anything about not liking Kevin Levrone. I wrote that he also had many claim that he had “small clavicles” which again is nitpicking when it comes to someone built like him.[/quote]

They had the same comment about Flex Wheeler… even used it to justify him not winning the Olympia, which is stupid considering that at his peak, Flex had arguably the best overall physique of all time.

I never knew Levrone was ever accused of having narrow clavicles. From what I remember his shoulders used to overpower his chest a bit, in some poses. (Just like Heath btw.) I only remember Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler having narrow clavicles.

Having said all that, I do believe that it can make quite a difference. If you have naturally wide clavicles, and a naturally narrow waist, you have an advantage in creating a world class torso. Ronnie Coleman is an excellent example of this.

this thread interests me…

i remember in the Rate my Physique forum in the “Sock it to me” thread, Prisoner 22 said the OP “Pwrbarboy” would never be able to compete successfully because his narrow clavicles

[quote]francois1 wrote:
I never knew Levrone was ever accused of having narrow clavicles. From what I remember his shoulders used to overpower his chest a bit, in some poses. (Just like Heath btw.) I only remember Shawn Ray and Flex Wheeler having narrow clavicles.

Having said all that, I do believe that it can make quite a difference. If you have naturally wide clavicles, and a naturally narrow waist, you have an advantage in creating a world class torso. Ronnie Coleman is an excellent example of this.[/quote]

Lee Priest is another example of narrow clavicles.

Most guys with narrow clavicles end up having overpowering delts and a proportionaly weak chest; either because they try to compense their clavicle length by building huge delts or for biomechanical reasons.

We must take other factors into consideration. Narrow clavicles on a short torso and a small waist isn’t bad… narrow clavicles, a long torso and wide hips is an obstacle to overcome.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Lee Priest is another example of narrow clavicles.

Most guys with narrow clavicles end up having overpowering delts and a proportionaly weak chest; either because they try to compense their clavicle length by building huge delts or for biomechanical reasons.

We must take other factors into consideration. Narrow clavicles on a short torso and a small waist isn’t bad… narrow clavicles, a long torso and wide hips is an obstacle to overcome.[/quote]

Are there any examples of pros who overcame this obstacle?

[quote]cpcloud wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Lee Priest is another example of narrow clavicles.

Most guys with narrow clavicles end up having overpowering delts and a proportionaly weak chest; either because they try to compense their clavicle length by building huge delts or for biomechanical reasons.

We must take other factors into consideration. Narrow clavicles on a short torso and a small waist isn’t bad… narrow clavicles, a long torso and wide hips is an obstacle to overcome.

Are there any examples of pros who overcame this obstacle?[/quote]

Flex Wheeler and Kevin Levrone are considered some of the best bodybuilders to have ever crossed the Olympia stage. I would think that IS overcoming it. When people are still talking about you long after you quit competing, my guess is you have achieved something fairly significant.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
cpcloud wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

Lee Priest is another example of narrow clavicles.

Most guys with narrow clavicles end up having overpowering delts and a proportionaly weak chest; either because they try to compense their clavicle length by building huge delts or for biomechanical reasons.

We must take other factors into consideration. Narrow clavicles on a short torso and a small waist isn’t bad… narrow clavicles, a long torso and wide hips is an obstacle to overcome.

Are there any examples of pros who overcame this obstacle?

Flex Wheeler and Kevin Levrone are considered some of the best bodybuilders to have ever crossed the Olympia stage. I would think that IS overcoming it. When people are still talking about you long after you quit competing, my guess is you have achieved something fairly significant.[/quote]

hahahaha yeah I know Prof X. I didn’t mean to sound like a dummy. I meant pros with narrow clavicles, long torsos and wide hips all in one.

Jay Cutler is known for having wider than average clavicles. Clavicle length is determined by genetics. So sad to say even having knowledge on the topic of clavicle length its not really going to help you because you can’t fix the problem. Just train to be the best that you can personally be and if your lucky enough to be olympia caliber someday then great. If not you’ve built a good physique anyway. My opinion and views…

As prisoner stated you can stop the growth of the bones by fusing the epiphyseal plate in your bones by taking AAS before you are finished growing. If pwrbarboy has not grown enough and fused his epiphyseal plate he might not be able to put on enough mass to ever be at a competitive level. If his bones have stopped growing his body will only be able to pack on so much muscle mass. If the clavicles are not at their widest then his back will never be at his widest. I think this is what prisoner was getting at. Then at only 5’6" or 8" pwrbarboy will look “less wide” than somebody who is a little taller with structurally wider shoulders. I hope this all makes sense, sometimes its hard to convey your point through a message.

Flex, Levrone, Heath, Ray, etc…were also noted for having “small joints” making the muscle on their body seem to fill out their frame. It supposedly gives the illusion of fuller muscle bellies. Having big shoulders and a lot of muscle on your back with tiny shoulders will give the illusion of a fuller and wider back. Place these guys next to Dennis Wolf who is super wide in the clavicle (I think, the small waist helps) and he will make these guys look thinner in certain poses.

My opinion…could be wrong.

Gerdy

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Brook wrote:
Don’t you like levrones physique X?

Joe

I didn’t write anything about not liking Kevin Levrone. I wrote that he also had many claim that he had “small clavicles” which again is nitpicking when it comes to someone built like him.

They had the same comment about Flex Wheeler… even used it to justify him not winning the Olympia, which is stupid considering that at his peak, Flex had arguably the best overall physique of all time.[/quote]

IMHO and off topic but I think Flex has had the best physique of all time. In the 98 olympia when it came down to flex and ronnie I don’t know how they gave it to Ronnie. Ronnie was larger but I think that Flex hit his peak at this show. His physique was amazing but the detail in his legs/back plus near perfect symmetry puts him at my #1 spot in greatest bodybuilders ever.

I agree, we are in a sport where criticism is judging and thats how competitors are awarded. Any physique can be picked apart. I guess that this is what they found with Flex. Wolf and his small calves and high lats. Ronnie and his gut. Jay is a brick and Dexter is lacking size, the list goes on. lol I’m gonna shoot to be the first bodybuilder that they can find nothing wrong with :stuck_out_tongue: key shoot lol

Gerdy

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Brook wrote:
Don’t you like levrones physique X?

Joe

I didn’t write anything about not liking Kevin Levrone. I wrote that he also had many claim that he had “small clavicles” which again is nitpicking when it comes to someone built like him.

They had the same comment about Flex Wheeler… even used it to justify him not winning the Olympia, which is stupid considering that at his peak, Flex had arguably the best overall physique of all time.

IMHO and off topic but I think Flex has had the best physique of all time. In the 98 olympia when it came down to flex and ronnie I don’t know how they gave it to Ronnie. Ronnie was larger but I think that Flex hit his peak at this show. His physique was amazing but the detail in his legs/back plus near perfect symmetry puts him at my #1 spot in greatest bodybuilders ever.

I agree, we are in a sport where criticism is judging and thats how competitors are awarded. Any physique can be picked apart. I guess that this is what they found with Flex. Wolf and his small calves and high lats. Ronnie and his gut. Jay is a brick and Dexter is lacking size, the list goes on. lol I’m gonna shoot to be the first bodybuilder that they can find nothing wrong with :stuck_out_tongue: key shoot lol

Gerdy[/quote]

Ronnie won because of size. When you have two similarly proportioned physiques both with respectable conditioning, but one is bigger, the bigger man wins. That is the first consideration the judges make.

As for clavical length, lets be honest here. Someone with truly narrow clavicles will never even be able to attain their pro card. And as you said if you have narrow clavicles, it doesn’t matter how big you make your delts. Someone with more clavical width can come along who has bigger shoulders than you anyways.

Bodybuilding is like any sport. Yes training and diet are huge, but ultimately when all of those variables are equal it is the competitiors underlying genetics that will shine through to win the day.

[quote]Prisoner wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:
Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Joe Brook wrote:
Don’t you like levrones physique X?

Joe

I didn’t write anything about not liking Kevin Levrone. I wrote that he also had many claim that he had “small clavicles” which again is nitpicking when it comes to someone built like him.

They had the same comment about Flex Wheeler… even used it to justify him not winning the Olympia, which is stupid considering that at his peak, Flex had arguably the best overall physique of all time.

IMHO and off topic but I think Flex has had the best physique of all time. In the 98 olympia when it came down to flex and ronnie I don’t know how they gave it to Ronnie. Ronnie was larger but I think that Flex hit his peak at this show. His physique was amazing but the detail in his legs/back plus near perfect symmetry puts him at my #1 spot in greatest bodybuilders ever.

I agree, we are in a sport where criticism is judging and thats how competitors are awarded. Any physique can be picked apart. I guess that this is what they found with Flex. Wolf and his small calves and high lats. Ronnie and his gut. Jay is a brick and Dexter is lacking size, the list goes on. lol I’m gonna shoot to be the first bodybuilder that they can find nothing wrong with :stuck_out_tongue: key shoot lol

Gerdy

Ronnie won because of size. When you have two similarly proportioned physiques both with respectable conditioning, but one is bigger, the bigger man wins. That is the first consideration the judges make.

As for clavical length, lets be honest here. Someone with truly narrow clavicles will never even be able to attain their pro card. And as you said if you have narrow clavicles, it doesn’t matter how big you make your delts. Someone with more clavical width can come along who has bigger shoulders than you anyways.

Bodybuilding is like any sport. Yes training and diet are huge, but ultimately when all of those variables are equal it is the competitiors underlying genetics that will shine through to win the day.[/quote]

Ya I wish that they would throw some more aesthetics in their judging repitore(sp?) tho, instead of being about mass. lol well they might be on that path if guys like heath with good proportions and the x-frames taking top positions in many contests.

Looking good from your avatar prisoner. If you don’t mind my asking, when are you expecting your pro card?

Gerdy

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
We must take other factors into consideration. Narrow clavicles on a short torso and a small waist isn’t bad… narrow clavicles, a long torso and wide hips is an obstacle to overcome.[/quote]

Speaking from experience, narrow clavicles on a short torso with wide hips is an unfortunate combination as well. Maybe in 20-30lbs it won’t be an issue, but it is definitely not an aesthetically pleasing look.

[quote]Dirty Gerdy wrote:

Looking good from your avatar prisoner. If you don’t mind my asking, when are you expecting your pro card?

Gerdy[/quote]

I need a good 15-20 lbs of lean muscle before I feel I can be in the running. My shape and frame is good, but my arms are long. Just keep plugging along. I usually put on about 5 lbs of lean mass per year, so I have a ways to go yet.

Building up the yoke will make your shoulders broader, or at least it worked for me.

[quote]Prisoner wrote:
Dirty Gerdy wrote:

Looking good from your avatar prisoner. If you don’t mind my asking, when are you expecting your pro card?

Gerdy

I need a good 15-20 lbs of lean muscle before I feel I can be in the running. My shape and frame is good, but my arms are long. Just keep plugging along. I usually put on about 5 lbs of lean mass per year, so I have a ways to go yet.

[/quote]

Right on, I’m on a similar page but at a lower level. lol I think I need a good 15-20lbs to be competitive at the local amateur level (NPC in southern California such as Cal state/Excalibur/ Orange County Classic is what I’d call my local shows). I’m 6’ so filling out is my problem (I hear you on the long arms problem). I have a few blessings tho. Great proportions and symmetry. The ability to come in very lean. It’s just a pain in the ass to put on size, but as you said keep plugging along and I’m only 20 so I know I have time on my side. Well, thanks man and good luck.

Gerdy