no idea what im talking about? i quoted the post you made that i was commenting on, twice, i explained myself, and you somehow cannot comprehend what i am saying? realy… now youre asking about my name. i dont understand how they are relevant.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
yolo you sucking some fst-7 dick lately?[/quote]
woah dude take your meds and calm down.[/quote]
hahah i actually meant it in a good way bro, as a joke. Sorry if i seemed all up in ur shit. Na but not really. O and i did take my meds dont worry, never forget.
[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
no idea what im talking about? i quoted the post you made that i was commenting on, twice, i explained myself, and you somehow cannot comprehend what i am saying? realy… now youre asking about my name. i dont understand how they are relevant.
[/quote]
I don’t think it’s worth it. Someone had a bad day, and wants to take it out here. What you said made perfect sense to me.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Are you just mad I’m not doing FST-7?
They’re not looking for the same look at all. Last I checked, Sandow, Reeves, and Coleman look nothing alike.
Once upon a time, people actually trained to achieve a specific set of proportions. Once they got there, they stopped. Not trying to be a dick, but maybe you should do a little bit of reading about how the training philosophies back then before discounting me.
[quote]
Just follow that why bother looking for obscure Steve Reeve’s stuff? [/quote]
Because Reeves trained differently than Coleman. And a lot of the advice today is more likely to churn out the Coleman look than the Reeves look. Even most Natural BB competitors don’t have the same kinds of proportions as Gironda and Reeves, even though they’re larger. There was time put into producing a specific physique look, and that’s what I’m trying to unravel.
[quote]
Also, rib cage expansion is fucking impossible ffs. Use your brain. [/quote]
Really? Based on what? Sure, bone can’t be grown, but your rib structure isn’t all bone. Why is the average asthmatics chest larger than the average non-asthmatic? The costal cartilage can be stretched.
But that’s beside the point. I’m not even advocating trying to expand the rib box.
[quote]
Honestly go and read the Beginners section as has been stated already. I don’t see why that is a problem, it is meant to help you.[/quote]
Because the beginners section isn’t filled with experienced bodybuilders who may have trained for the Reeves/Gironda look.[/quote]
You are so clueless it is sad.
I can think of ONE person on this forum who is actively pursuing “looking like Coleman.” NO ONE ELSE IS. Also, you are choosing to pick the greatest BB in history as your example. LOL.
I have read TONS on old school BB, Randell Strossen, Sandow, old time strength training, etc. It’s all very interesting to me.
Please let me know where this info is that will “churn out the next Coleman” LOL. I didn’t even mention fucking Coleman i said KINGBEEF WHO IS NATURAL AND ON THIS FUCKING BOARD. You really think you can just follow a routine and look “just like” Coleman or Steve Reeves? Are you for real?
No, you cannot expand your rib cage by pulling on a fucking door frame (pretty sure Strossen first mentions this is his squats book, yes I have read it). End of story.
btw before you get upset, I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU. You should be grateful. Honestly, read the beginners forum, I am stopping you from wasting your time.
Yes I am mad you won’t do FST-7.
[quote]bignate wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
yolo you sucking some fst-7 dick lately?[/quote]
woah dude take your meds and calm down.[/quote]
hahah i actually meant it in a good way bro, as a joke. Sorry if i seemed all up in ur shit. Na but not really. O and i did take my meds dont worry, never forget. [/quote]
not sure if srs.
either way <3
[quote]
You are so clueless it is sad. [/quote]
Your reading comprehension is so poor it is sad.
[quote]
… a bunch of stuff not worth replying to …[/quote]
[quote]
btw before you get upset, I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU. You should be grateful. Honestly, read the beginners forum, I am stopping you from wasting your time.[/quote]
What would help is if you answered my two questions. It would also help if you stopped thinking I was looking for some magic routine that magically turns me into Steve Reeves.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
Firstly, thanks for the pointer to Gironda’s writing; I didn’t know he’d written anything. I’d read stuff from early on: Alan Calvert, Sandow, etc., and looked at Steve Reeves’ programs, and writing by McCallum. But somehow I missed Gironda.
Secondly… reading comprehension?
I made a total of two points.
- There’s a look I like. It’s the direction I want to train. I don’t see it much around here.
- Right now I’m just training for mass. That’s it. I’m not trying to sculpt anything, I’m not trying to do this in 6 weeks. I’m not trying to do it in 2 years. I’ve got a good 4-6 years, minimum, just to lay the groundwork.
And I had a couple questions, which are still unanswered:
- Is anyone around here training for that look, and if so, what are you doing?
- Is there anything I should focus on now – in addition to gaining mass – that could help me get that look down the road. Calvert put a huge emphasis on “rib-box expansion” in the beginning stages of training. Are there any things I should focus on while I’m still a beginner? Specific foundational work?
I can do my own research. I know how to find out what Reeves did, or whoever. But I can’t send them a PM. I can’t ask them for advice.
However, I can talk to you guys and get advice that will help me meet my specific goals. And if someone here is training specifically for that look, I’m going to give their opinion a little more weight.
And that’s what I’m looking for.[/quote]
I think the short answer to “should you do any specific foundational work” aside from the basic compound movements is: no.
Why not just be flexible in your future training instead of trying to plan it all now? When you’re talking about what ‘look’ people are going for here, I think the answer is generally going to end up being wherever genetics will take you.
I’ll use me as an example. I’ve made progress in the gym. I’ve got before and after pictures in the RMP section. You can see that my ‘before’ structure resembles my ‘after’ structure to a great degree. My muscles just got bigger. I think this is what to expect for a long time in your training. You can start molding the details in later years. I think a lot of your questions can be answered intuitively once you know how your own body responds to years of training heavy and often.
The ‘look’ I’m going for is strong. I want to look strong. However that ends up looking on my structure is acceptable. I work hard in the gym, and I find out later what that means on my body. If I decide I need bigger arms later, I can do curls and presses. If I need traps, I’ll shrug. If I need quads, I’ll front squat more.
That’s the best advice I can offer, hopefully you feel it’s relevant to your specific questions.
EDIT: The before picture I’m talking about (if you look at it) is me at about 140lbs, and I’m right about 5’11. The after (me now) is 180-185 for reference. Similar body fat percentages.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
[quote]
You are so clueless it is sad. [/quote]
Your reading comprehension is so poor it is sad.
[quote]
… a bunch of stuff not worth replying to …[/quote]
[quote]
btw before you get upset, I AM TRYING TO HELP YOU. You should be grateful. Honestly, read the beginners forum, I am stopping you from wasting your time.[/quote]
What would help is if you answered my two questions. It would also help if you stopped thinking I was looking for some magic routine that magically turns me into Steve Reeves.[/quote]
The irony of you saying that I am the one with poor reading comprehension in this thread is just brilliant.
Seriously, just read the beginners section.
You are 145lb and 5’11.
Why can’t any of these threads exist without invoking some kind of argument? Face it, not everybody has the same goals as you, and if you don’t agree with them it’s best not to post at all.
OP, Vince Gironda wrote a lot of his training ideologies when he was alive, I would read up on those (they’re very good). I’ve been studying Vince’s training techniques for years now. Here’s some stuff I can think of off the top of my head that might help you.
Chest: Disregard the standard bench press: it gives your pec’s that bulbous look that the classical guys didn’t have. Gironda believed pecs should appear like slabs running across your clavicals and not simple hanging from sheer weight. Vince really emphasized his upper chest. In lieu of the standard bench press, do ‘neck presses,’ it’s a wider grip bench press that comes down to your neck instead of your chest. Also, do Gironda dips, they’re easily one of the best chest developers. If you have access to cables, Vince was a huge fan of Larry Scott who did a lot of cable fly’s.
Arms: No E-Z Bars. Ever. Preacher Curls were a staple for him, both with dumbells and barbells. And if you have access to a spider bench, those really help with your biceps peak. Vince had some really unorthodox Triceps techniques but if you’re looking for a more mainstream exercise go with Tricep kickbacks.
Back: Gironda Sternup Chin Ups are a must. He also loved Lat Pulldowns, but make sure you pull all the way down to the chest to get the stretch. Pullovers as well: do a lighter weight and go for upwards of 20+ reps.
Legs: Vince hated the standard back squat. He thought it made your midsection too thick. Instead of the standard squat, do sissy squats, hack squats, front squats, and roman chair squats.
Abs: He hated sit ups, and was one of the first in the industry to condemn them. Never do any direct oblique training, it thickens the waist. For Abs, do crunches and knee-in’s, and do them sparingly (never every day).
Forearms: Wrist Curls, Thor’s Hammer
Shoulders: He always advocated balanced shoulder training. High Pulls, Seated Laterals, and Scott Shoulder Presses are good. When doing Laterals, keep the rear bell higher than the front bell.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
yolo you sucking some fst-7 dick lately?[/quote]
woah dude take your meds and calm down.[/quote]
hahah i actually meant it in a good way bro, as a joke. Sorry if i seemed all up in ur shit. Na but not really. O and i did take my meds dont worry, never forget. [/quote]
not sure if srs.
either way <3[/quote]
all of that was serious…
seriously joke.
Besides the meds.
Thats real.
Now you know.
FST-7 brother.
<3 returned. XD
[quote]Toodlum wrote:
Why can’t any of these threads exist without invoking some kind of argument? Face it, not everybody has the same goals as you, and if you don’t agree with them it’s best not to post at all.
OP, Vince Gironda wrote a lot of his training ideologies when he was alive, I would read up on those (they’re very good). I’ve been studying Vince’s training techniques for years now. Here’s some stuff I can think of off the top of my head that might help you.
Chest: Disregard the standard bench press: it gives your pec’s that bulbous look that the classical guys didn’t have. Gironda believed pecs should appear like slabs running across your clavicals and not simple hanging from sheer weight. Vince really emphasized his upper chest. In lieu of the standard bench press, do ‘neck presses,’ it’s a wider grip bench press that comes down to your neck instead of your chest. Also, do Gironda dips, they’re easily one of the best chest developers. If you have access to cables, Vince was a huge fan of Larry Scott who did a lot of cable fly’s.
Arms: No E-Z Bars. Ever. Preacher Curls were a staple for him, both with dumbells and barbells. And if you have access to a spider bench, those really help with your biceps peak. Vince had some really unorthodox Triceps techniques but if you’re looking for a more mainstream exercise go with Tricep kickbacks.
Back: Gironda Sternup Chin Ups are a must. He also loved Lat Pulldowns, but make sure you pull all the way down to the chest to get the stretch.
Legs: Vince hated the standard back squat. He thought it made your midsection too thick. Instead of the standard squat, do sissy squats, hack squats, front squats, and roman chair squats.
Abs: He hated sit ups, and was one of the first in the industry to condemn them. Never do any direct oblique training, it thickens the waist. For Abs, do crunches and knee-in’s, and do them sparingly (never every day).
Forearms: Wrist Curls, Thor’s Hammer
Shoulders: He always advocated balanced shoulder training. High Pulls, Seated Laterals, and Scott Shoulder Presses are good. When doing Laterals, keep the rear bell higher than the front bell.
[/quote]
Lots of broscience up in this post. The chest stuff is just plain ridiculous. Chest shape will be determined by your genetics. muscle can’t be ‘shaped’ the way this post seems to suggest. Same applies to the comment about spider benches and biceps peaks. Totally bogus.
[quote]bignate wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
yolo you sucking some fst-7 dick lately?[/quote]
woah dude take your meds and calm down.[/quote]
hahah i actually meant it in a good way bro, as a joke. Sorry if i seemed all up in ur shit. Na but not really. O and i did take my meds dont worry, never forget. [/quote]
not sure if srs.
either way <3[/quote]
all of that was serious…
seriously joke.
Besides the meds.
Thats real.
Now you know.
FST-7 brother.
<3 returned. XD
[/quote]
I never looked into FST-7 and I have to admit, me of all people, who’s always suggesting people do their own leg work, am too lazy to look into an IFBB coach’s training strategy. But I’ll ask: are people poking at it because it’s silly?
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
[quote]bignate wrote:
yolo you sucking some fst-7 dick lately?[/quote]
woah dude take your meds and calm down.[/quote]
hahah i actually meant it in a good way bro, as a joke. Sorry if i seemed all up in ur shit. Na but not really. O and i did take my meds dont worry, never forget. [/quote]
not sure if srs.
either way <3[/quote]
all of that was serious…
seriously joke.
Besides the meds.
Thats real.
Now you know.
FST-7 brother.
<3 returned. XD
[/quote]
I never looked into FST-7 and I have to admit, me of all people, who’s always suggesting people do their own leg work, am too lazy to look into an IFBB coach’s training strategy. But I’ll ask: are people poking at it because it’s silly? [/quote]
no its actually a really solid layout/technique. After i saw count always posting it i had to try…its awesome.
FST-7 dude…try it.
[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I never looked into FST-7 and I have to admit, me of all people, who’s always suggesting people do their own leg work, am too lazy to look into an IFBB coach’s training strategy. But I’ll ask: are people poking at it because it’s silly? [/quote]
Ok full disclosure: I only post it for teh lulz. Don’t know much about it. I would say that IFBB guys do it, so proceed with extreme caution, or you might wake up looking like Cutler.
OP you suck.
Toodlum: well done on writing a bunch of complete crap. Great first post.
[quote]yolo84 wrote:
The irony of you saying that I am the one with poor reading comprehension in this thread is just brilliant.[/quote]
Ok.
First post: “I’m 5’11, 145, and I have no business doing anything but adding mass at this point.”
Second post: “I have years to go. I know that. Train lots, eat lots, sleep lots. Right, I get that.”
Third post: “Right now I’m just training for mass. That’s it. I’m not trying to sculpt anything, I’m not trying to do this in 6 weeks. I’m not trying to do it in 2 years. I’ve got a good 4-6 years, minimum, just to lay the groundwork.”
But you still want to insist that I’m looking for some specific routine to make me look like Steve Reeves and that I’m clueless.
I have no idea how you came to that conclusion, except that you didn’t read what I wrote.
[quote]LoRez wrote:
I should just go read the stickied threads shouldn’t I?.
[/quote]
Finally!
Good luck OP.
[quote]flipcollar wrote:
[quote]Toodlum wrote:
Why can’t any of these threads exist without invoking some kind of argument? Face it, not everybody has the same goals as you, and if you don’t agree with them it’s best not to post at all.
OP, Vince Gironda wrote a lot of his training ideologies when he was alive, I would read up on those (they’re very good). I’ve been studying Vince’s training techniques for years now. Here’s some stuff I can think of off the top of my head that might help you.
Chest: Disregard the standard bench press: it gives your pec’s that bulbous look that the classical guys didn’t have. Gironda believed pecs should appear like slabs running across your clavicals and not simple hanging from sheer weight. Vince really emphasized his upper chest. In lieu of the standard bench press, do ‘neck presses,’ it’s a wider grip bench press that comes down to your neck instead of your chest. Also, do Gironda dips, they’re easily one of the best chest developers. If you have access to cables, Vince was a huge fan of Larry Scott who did a lot of cable fly’s.
Arms: No E-Z Bars. Ever. Preacher Curls were a staple for him, both with dumbells and barbells. And if you have access to a spider bench, those really help with your biceps peak. Vince had some really unorthodox Triceps techniques but if you’re looking for a more mainstream exercise go with Tricep kickbacks.
Back: Gironda Sternup Chin Ups are a must. He also loved Lat Pulldowns, but make sure you pull all the way down to the chest to get the stretch.
Legs: Vince hated the standard back squat. He thought it made your midsection too thick. Instead of the standard squat, do sissy squats, hack squats, front squats, and roman chair squats.
Abs: He hated sit ups, and was one of the first in the industry to condemn them. Never do any direct oblique training, it thickens the waist. For Abs, do crunches and knee-in’s, and do them sparingly (never every day).
Forearms: Wrist Curls, Thor’s Hammer
Shoulders: He always advocated balanced shoulder training. High Pulls, Seated Laterals, and Scott Shoulder Presses are good. When doing Laterals, keep the rear bell higher than the front bell.
[/quote]
Lots of broscience up in this post. The chest stuff is just plain ridiculous. Chest shape will be determined by your genetics. muscle can’t be ‘shaped’ the way this post seems to suggest. Same applies to the comment about spider benches and biceps peaks. Totally bogus.[/quote]
By overtraining your upper chest and undertraining your lower chest, you can attain the look OP is looking for. No, you can’t ‘shape’ the muscle, but you can manipulate how it develops. And if you think biceps peaks are determined entirely by genetics and not by how you train then your ignorant.
I read somewhere on here something like “If you want to get 20 inch arms, ask someone who has 20 inch arms.”
Well, I want that classic physique, so I was trying to find someone who had it and/or was working toward it.
Is that so wrong?
did you read my post OP? Thoughts?
[quote]LoRez wrote:
For the record, I had milk and steak tonight.[/quote]
Relevant question: What was for breakfast, snack, lunch, and snack?
Using this line of thinking, guys like Dick Dubois and Alan Stephan (other competitors from the '40s and '50s) should also be built with proportions similar to Reeves, but different men who lift weights the same way are going to end up looking a little different because they’re different people. We call this “genetics”, and it can be a sumbeetch.
Check out the guy pictured above. He’s a pro physique competitor and, I think, maybe along the lines of the goal you’re talking about. Would that be safe to say? In my next post, I’ll put up another picture and some more info.
The Beginners forum is meant to corral the beginners and get their questions answered with limited grief and attacks being tossed their way. You can still get quality answers there.