Classical Physique Training?

How can you build “ideal proportions” before you build anything?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How can you build “ideal proportions” before you build anything?[/quote]

Not sure if directed at me.

Personally I think the OP has his head stuck up his ass over this stuff. Brick has already said just lift weights and eat you are 145lbs, looking like Reg Park is gonna be a bigger commitment than 6 WEEKS TO CLASSIC PHYSIQUES!

However, OP does not seem to want to listen to this, that’s why I suggested all that ideal proportions BS.

If not directed at me, this has been a pointless post.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
How can you build “ideal proportions” before you build anything?[/quote]

Not sure if directed at me.

Personally I think the OP has his head stuck up his ass over this stuff. Brick has already said just lift weights and eat you are 145lbs, looking like Reg Park is gonna be a bigger commitment than 6 WEEKS TO CLASSIC PHYSIQUES!

However, OP does not seem to want to listen to this, that’s why I suggested all that ideal proportions BS.

If not directed at me, this has been a pointless post.[/quote]

It was directed at anyone who recommends Casey Butt to a newb.

Even though SOME of his info on nutrition is questionable, he put out some very valuable stuff. His programming for beginners is pretty good.

I’m not sure I’m allowed to post links to his beginner series, but here’s a brief excerpt:

"Program #1 - Your First 2 Weeks Of Weight Training
This is what I want you to do. Each time you go to the gym do the following routine:

The Basic Routine
Squats 2 x 10
Bench Presses 2 x 10
Bent-Over Rows 2 x 10
Overhead Barbell Presses 2 x 10
Stiff-Legged Deadlifts 2 x 10
Barbell Curls 2 x 10
Donkey Calf Raises 2 x 10
Reverse Crunches 2 x 10
Explanation

Perform this routine 3 times per week on non-consecutive days. That could work out to be Monday/Wednesday/Friday, it could be Sunday/Tuesday/Thursday or it could be Tuesday/Thursday/Saturday. It really doesn’t matter which schedule you follow so pick the one that’s the most convenient for you.

If you normally stay up late Friday night, and therefore get little sleep, then it wouldn’t be a good idea to work out on Saturday. Likewise, if you have lots to do during the week, then it may be more practical for you to train once on the weekend and twice during the week - the Monday/Wednesday/Friday schedule may not be an ideal option for you. This may help free up some time."

People can use a search engine to find the rest. This is pretty much all a beginner needs. No, he didn’t write anything grounbreaking, but a beginner doesn’t need anything groundbreaking (as if there even is groundbreaking stuff out there).

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It was directed at anyone who recommends Casey Butt to a newb.
[/quote]

lol well there’s no one else here!

Read the guy’s posts. That is the kind of stuff he wants. He has been given the relevant advice and doesn’t want to hear it. You can bring a horse to water etc.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]BrickHead wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
I’m 5’11, 145, and I have no business doing anything but adding mass at this point.[/quote]

Dude, SERIOUSLY, there’s nothing you should be focusing on NOW other than gaining your first-year noobie gain of 20-something pounds![/quote]

Didn’t I just say that? I think I said that.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
Is anyone going for this look? Yes, many.[/quote]

Well, I assume they must be, but where are they? I spent some time looking through RMP, and I see a lot of “Men’s Health” fitness models, and “waterfilled sausage balloons”. Not much for the Reeves/Grimek look. That’s why I asked.

(Don’t get me wrong, I respect all the hard work toward whatever look. It’s just there’s a particular look that I want)

[quote]Yolo84 said:
FST-7.[/quote]

What is that, the Bodybuilding forum’s equivalent of “Reg Park’s 5x5”?

For those who got a laugh out of this, awesome… but I was trying to get the focus off of me. The only thing I have that’s remotely close to that look is the narrow waist. The rest, I have years to go. I know that. Train lots, eat lots, sleep lots. Right, I get that.

Probably the biggest difference I’ve noticed between then and now is the chest development. It was less developed back then, but it was also pointing more upward. It was a high arched chest. How the hell did they do that? Pullovers? Breathing squats?

The second part is I’m confused about their shoulders. I don’t know much about deltoid development, so I’m a little confused at how WIDE the shoulders are. Skeletally, my shoulder joints are not much wider than my hips. But when you put muscle on top of it, can you actually add that much width? Or are their skeletons literally that much wider?

For the record, I had milk and steak tonight.[/quote]

Sorry about that. I think I posted a bit too quickly and emotionally. I empathize with your goal, and there’s nothing wrong with looking into the future and preparing for it. But when someone sees a guy at 5’11", 145#, and just starting out, he wants to make sure this guy knows not that he shouldn’t be distracted by goals and objectives that don’t apply to noob gains.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
It was directed at anyone who recommends Casey Butt to a newb.
[/quote]

lol well there’s no one else here!

Read the guy’s posts. That is the kind of stuff he wants. He has been given the relevant advice and doesn’t want to hear it. You can bring a horse to water etc.[/quote]

This is true. I’ve read a damn lot on fitness, and I haven’t seen anyone provide as much info on the physical stats of the best naturals in the past 60 years.

Firstly, thanks for the pointer to Gironda’s writing; I didn’t know he’d written anything. I’d read stuff from early on: Alan Calvert, Sandow, etc., and looked at Steve Reeves’ programs, and writing by McCallum. But somehow I missed Gironda.

Secondly… reading comprehension?

I made a total of two points.

  1. There’s a look I like. It’s the direction I want to train. I don’t see it much around here.
  2. Right now I’m just training for mass. That’s it. I’m not trying to sculpt anything, I’m not trying to do this in 6 weeks. I’m not trying to do it in 2 years. I’ve got a good 4-6 years, minimum, just to lay the groundwork.

And I had a couple questions, which are still unanswered:

  1. Is anyone around here training for that look, and if so, what are you doing?
  2. Is there anything I should focus on now – in addition to gaining mass – that could help me get that look down the road. Calvert put a huge emphasis on “rib-box expansion” in the beginning stages of training. Are there any things I should focus on while I’m still a beginner? Specific foundational work?

I can do my own research. I know how to find out what Reeves did, or whoever. But I can’t send them a PM. I can’t ask them for advice.

However, I can talk to you guys and get advice that will help me meet my specific goals. And if someone here is training specifically for that look, I’m going to give their opinion a little more weight.

And that’s what I’m looking for.

Casey Butt: Squashing a newbs dreams before he even leaves the starting gate.

PS: Potential means you haven’t done it… YET.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Casey Butt: Squashing a newbs dreams before he even leaves the starting gate.

PS: Potential means you haven’t done it… YET.[/quote]

ID: What do you mean by this? The man simply compiled and analyzed data on the greatest natural lifters of all time–nothing more, nothing less. Not once did he say that people shouldn’t shoot for more. Even if he did, what rational person wouldn’t try their best anyway?

Anyway, so far no natural lifter has exceeded the stats he provides.

If I recall correctly, he said that naturals can gain 30 to 40 pounds of muscle from drug-free training.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Casey Butt: Squashing a newbs dreams before he even leaves the starting gate.

PS: Potential means you haven’t done it… YET.[/quote]

LOL not really. if anything he puts it into a better perspective. he gives you the non bullshit facts. unlike when noobs read “GAIN 50LBS FROM THIS SUPPLEMENT” in a magazine they think its so easy to build muscle. casey butt’s articles put your head on straight and give you the straight facts of muscle building.

[quote]LoRez wrote:

  1. Is anyone around here training for that look, and if so, what are you doing?
  2. Is there anything I should focus on now – in addition to gaining mass – that could help me get that look down the road. Calvert put a huge emphasis on “rib-box expansion” in the beginning stages of training. Are there any things I should focus on while I’m still a beginner? Specific foundational work?

However, I can talk to you guys and get advice that will help me meet my specific goals. And if someone here is training specifically for that look, I’m going to give their opinion a little more weight.

And that’s what I’m looking for.[/quote]

Everyone on this forum is looking for this same “look”. It is called the look of a bodybuilder! Oh really you want big shoulders, big arms and a big chest all in fantastic proportion and looking amazing? Cos no one else here wants that!

You sound like you mean well but you are getting bogged down in all this golden age 1950s stuff. Just look up KingBeef’s routines thread. That guy looks amazing and is in proportion etc. He trains a typical BB type split, with emphasis on getting stronger, and yes he is natural too before you wet yourself (unlike all the guys you are talking about btw).

Just follow that why bother looking for obscure Steve Reeve’s stuff?

“Specific foundational work” - yeah the same as every other fucker!! Get strong on compound movements for reps, do isolation work, incorporate MMC. Learn about nutrition. All this shit takes grunt work by yourself. No one is going to write you a little 100 word essay which will turn you into Adonis.

Also, rib cage expansion is fucking impossible ffs. Use your brain.

Honestly go and read the Beginners section as has been stated already. I don’t see why that is a problem, it is meant to help you.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Casey Butt: Squashing a newbs dreams before he even leaves the starting gate.

PS: Potential means you haven’t done it… YET.[/quote]

LOL not really. if anything he puts it into a better perspective. he gives you the non bullshit facts. unlike when noobs read “GAIN 50LBS FROM THIS SUPPLEMENT” in a magazine they think its so easy to build muscle. casey butt’s articles put your head on straight and give you the straight facts of muscle building.[/quote]

If I just take the right supplements and follow the program, I can add about 700 pounds of LBM in 6 weeks, right? God, there’s so much crap out there. I’m trying to sort it all out without being pulled in with unrealistic expectations. I respect the fact he put things into context.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

  1. Is anyone around here training for that look, and if so, what are you doing?
  2. Is there anything I should focus on now – in addition to gaining mass – that could help me get that look down the road. Calvert put a huge emphasis on “rib-box expansion” in the beginning stages of training. Are there any things I should focus on while I’m still a beginner? Specific foundational work?

However, I can talk to you guys and get advice that will help me meet my specific goals. And if someone here is training specifically for that look, I’m going to give their opinion a little more weight.

And that’s what I’m looking for.[/quote]

Everyone on this forum is looking for this same “look”. It is called the look of a bodybuilder! Oh really you want big shoulders, big arms and a big chest all in fantastic proportion and looking amazing? Cos no one else here wants that!

You sound like you mean well but you are getting bogged down in all this golden age 1950s stuff. Just look up KingBeef’s routines thread. That guy looks amazing and is in proportion etc. He trains a typical BB type split, with emphasis on getting stronger, and yes he is natural too before you wet yourself (unlike all the guys you are talking about btw).
[/quote]

not true at all. i find today’s bodybuilders are getting too big and losing their lines. IMO john grimek, george eifferman, steve reeves, reg park, etc. had a MUCH better looking physique than cutler, yates, coleman and the other freaks. of course arnold, nubret, zane, mentzer, etc. had phenomenal physiques as well.

these mass monsters that are being produced today are purely for entertainment for fans and judges to see how big these guys are willing to get without giving a damn about lines and aesthetics.

yea, this is going to start a flame war but i dont really care. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
not true at all. i find today’s bodybuilders are getting too big and losing their lines. IMO john grimek, george eifferman, steve reeves, reg park, etc. had a MUCH better looking physique than cutler, yates, coleman and the other freaks. of course arnold, nubret, zane, mentzer, etc. had phenomenal physiques as well.

these mass monsters that are being produced today are purely for entertainment for fans and judges to see how big these guys are willing to get without giving a damn about lines and aesthetics.

yea, this is going to start a flame war but i dont really care. everyone is entitled to their own opinion.[/quote]

What do you mean “not true at all.”

What you have posted has absolutely nothing relevant to anything I have said.

Please explain.

[quote]yolo84 wrote:

Everyone on this forum is looking for this same “look”. It is called the look of a bodybuilder! Oh really you want big shoulders, big arms and a big chest all in fantastic proportion and looking amazing? Cos no one else here wants that!

[/quote]

unless you were being sarcastic which is hard to tell…

[quote]wannabebig250 wrote:
Cos no one else here wants that!

[/quote]

unless you were being sarcastic which is hard to tell…[/quote]

Again, no idea what you are talking about.

I am saying that everyone on this forum wants to look like a bodybuilder,so for the sake of brevity, they are looking for size, proportions and aesthetics.

Why you are mentioning IFBB pros like Jay Cutler makes no sense.

Also “wannabebig250” your name seems ironic if I am reading the gist of your argument right. But again maybe I am not, so please explain.

Are you just mad I’m not doing FST-7?

[quote]yolo84 wrote:
Everyone on this forum is looking for this same “look”. It is called the look of a bodybuilder! Oh really you want big shoulders, big arms and a big chest all in fantastic proportion and looking amazing? Cos no one else here wants that![/quote]

They’re not looking for the same look at all. Last I checked, Sandow, Reeves, and Coleman look nothing alike.

Once upon a time, people actually trained to achieve a specific set of proportions. Once they got there, they stopped. Not trying to be a dick, but maybe you should do a little bit of reading about the training philosophies back then before discounting me.

[quote]
Just follow that why bother looking for obscure Steve Reeve’s stuff? [/quote]

Because Reeves trained differently than Coleman. And a lot of the advice today is more likely to churn out the Coleman look than the Reeves look. Even most Natural BB competitors don’t have the same kinds of proportions as Gironda and Reeves, even though they’re larger. There was time put into producing a specific physique look, and that’s what I’m trying to unravel.

[quote]
Also, rib cage expansion is fucking impossible ffs. Use your brain. [/quote]

Really? Based on what? Sure, bone can’t be grown, but your rib structure isn’t all bone. Why is the average asthmatics chest larger than the average non-asthmatic? The costal cartilage can be stretched.

But that’s beside the point. I’m not even advocating trying to expand the rib box.

[quote]
Honestly go and read the Beginners section as has been stated already. I don’t see why that is a problem, it is meant to help you.[/quote]

Because the beginners section isn’t filled with experienced bodybuilders who may have trained for the Reeves/Gironda look.