CLA &Guarana

B_real · February 26, 2003, 4:32pm

i was wondering if anyone is or has used this combo? how were your results?

this is what i know:
CLA can reduce adipocyte volume. However, when you add Guarana adipocyte volume and number are being reduced. i have been told there will not be a caffine rush when using guarana due to the slow release of guaranine.

i am also looking into a few other agents to mix in.
does anyone have any other info?
I am also wondering about insulin sensitivity.

thanks,
Brian

El_Conquistador · February 26, 2003, 6:15pm

Guarana is nothing more than plant-based caffeine.

CLA can be useful depending on the circumstances. For one, use the Tonalin form. Also, it needs to be a 4-7 g. daily dosage.

Some people do not believe in the effectiveness of CLA, but there are too many good studies as well as anecdotal reports of the benefits. I personally think that if you have a problem with fat storage due to high cortisol levels, you would see a benefit with the proper dosage protocol. If your fat loss issues are due to other hormonal imbalances then it may not do a lot for you. I think if you have excessive fat storage around the abdomen (and of course everyone says that they do…), you would get more benefit than say someone who stores it predomantly in other areas such as back, legs, tricep etc. If it is a cortisol issue, you might get good results from Tonalin and there are a few others that may help.

El_Conquistador · February 26, 2003, 6:18pm

CLA also offers other health benefits besides its potential effect on weight loss as well.

As far as the caffeine release from guarana, I don’t know about that. For one, it would depend on the standardization of the guarana, and the problem with herbs is there’s no way to 100 percent guarantee exactly how much active ingredient is actually in there. Insulin sensitivity…read the Caffeine Roundtable in the previous issues.

Timbo808 · February 27, 2003, 12:14am

B-Real:

CLA is an excellent addition to your program.

Here is a post that I put up in another forum over a month ago, highlighting some CLA Specs…

Hey, guys. I dug up two studies–which I feel represent a good chunk of the important info–on CLA. Specifically, these two studies point out important things to consider when supplementing your nutritional program with CLA. The two highlights are:

Total dosage of Conjugated Linoleic Acid. That is, not the total number of capsules you plan on taking, as that is not representative of the total CLA you will be ingesting. Find the concentration of CLA in each cap to determine the number of capsules you need daily.

The specific form/isomer of CLA supplemented with. One isomer will prove absolutely useless, whilst the other will boast some potent effects.
In both cases, the manufacturer is important. I know that Tonalin is well-respected one and would recommend it.

Here ya go, boys.

Conjugated Linoleic Acid Reduces Body Fat Mass in Overweight and Obese Humans
Henrietta Blankson, Jacob A. Stakkestad*, Hans *ertun, Erling Thom, Jan Wadstein and Ola Gudmundsen

Conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) has been shown to reduce body fat mass (BFM) in animals. To investigate the dose-response relationships of conjugated linoleic acid with regard to BFM in humans, a randomized, double-blind study including 60 overweight or obese volunteers (body mass index 25?35 kg/m2) was performed. The subjects were divided into five groups receiving placebo (9 g olive oil), 1.7, 3.4, 5.1 or 6.8 g conjugated linoleic acid per day for 12 wk, respectively. Dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry was used to measure body composition [measurements at wk 0 (baseline), 6 and 12]. Of the 60 subjects, 47 completed the study. Eight subjects withdrew from the study due to adverse events; however, no differences among treatment groups were found regarding adverse events. Repeated-measures analysis showed that a significantly higher reduction in BFM was found in the conjugated linoleic acid groups compared with the placebo group (P = 0.03). The reduction of body fat within the groups was significant for the 3.4 and 6.8 g CLA groups (P = 0.05 and P = 0.02, respectively). No significant differences among the groups were observed in lean body mass, body mass index, blood safety variables or blood lipids. The data suggest that conjugated linoleic acid may reduce BFM in humans and that no additional effect on BFM is achieved with doses > 3.4 g CLA/d.

The trans-10,cis-12 Isomer of Conjugated Linoleic Acid Downregulates Stearoyl-CoA Desaturase 1 Gene Expression in 3T3-L1 Adipocytes
Youngjin Choi*, Young-Cheul Kim*, Yong-Bong Han, Yeonhwa Park**, Michael W. Pariza** and James M. Ntambi*,

Conjugated linoleic acids (CLA) are a group of positional and geometric conjugated dienoic isomers of linoleic acid. The objective of this study was to determine the effects of the cis-9,trans-11 and trans-10,cis-12 isomers of conjugated linoleic acid on lipid composition and gene expression during the differentiation of mouse 3T3-L1 preadipocytes. Treatment of differentiating 3T3-L1 preadipocytes with trans-10,cis-12 conjugated linoleic acid (CLA) resulted in a dose-dependent decrease in the expression of the stearoyl-CoA desaturase 1 gene (SCD1). The expression of other adipocyte genes such as adipose P2 (aP2), fatty acid synthase (FAS), SCD2 and the key adipogenic transcription factors, peroxisome proliferator-activated receptor 2 (PPAR2) and CCAAT enhancer binding protein (C/EBP), remained elevated. Cells treated with trans-10,cis-12 CLA exhibited smaller lipid droplets, with reduced levels of the major monounsaturated fatty acids, palmitoleate and oleate. By contrast, the cis-9,trans-11 isomer did not alter adipocyte gene expression. Repression of the stearoyl-CoA desaturase gene expression in adipocytes by the trans-10,cis-12 isomer may contribute to the mechanisms by which CLA reduces body fat in mice.

o0ArticA0o · February 27, 2003, 12:28am

I don’t use thermo’s but to help you out with what I have heard, not tried, but the rave right now for weight loss is 7-keto dhea. I have read quite a few posts and research studies on it. Bill Robert’s actually had some good things to say. From what I can recall him writting that it helped to keep natural thyroid levels to above normal to atleast normal during dieting phases. Also, don’t forget about synephrine.

Da Boxer

El_Conquistador · February 27, 2003, 9:09am

I like 7-keto as well, although it’s been a couple of years since I used it. Dan Duchaine touted this one long ago as an alternative after Triax got banned. It’s not cheap at a 200 mg. daily dosage, but I used this with an E/C stack three years ago in conjunction with German Body Comp and dropped my bodyfat almost four percentage points in less than a month. I ended up getting sick for a few days (unrelated to the supplements) however and got off track on my program, and stopped using the 7-keto as it was expensive (Twinlab’s 7-Keto Fuel).

I don’t know who’s all making it now, but I know Enzymatic Therapy has a really good product called 7-Keto Naturalean with a few other bells and whistles. I think it’s in that new Lean System 7 that Brad Jefferies…oops I mean Shawn Phillips (anyone catch that reference) is touting.

nickasu · February 27, 2003, 10:46am

Interesting on CLA- I remember when EAS came out with it back and the day, I bought a bunch and it didn’t do jack. Then I heard that it was because of the quality or type, and Tonalin CLA was the way to go. For those of you who’ve had success using Tonalin CLA, how many grams per day did you take, and did you take it all at once, or throughout the day? Thanks…

El_Conquistador · February 27, 2003, 2:50pm

6 g. per day of Tonalin…this is what Serrano recommends and was one of the two doses used in the clinical studies (3.4 and 6.8 g)

nephorm · February 27, 2003, 4:52pm

So if I took CLA for a month, would that be sufficient time for me to determine whether or not it worked for me?

nephorm · February 28, 2003, 5:06pm

bump

El_Conquistador · February 28, 2003, 5:53pm

I would say so. Don’t expect 10 lbs. lean mass gain or anything, but check your ab skinfold in particular and make sure you take 4-6 g. of Tonalin if you’re gonna do it.

Timbo808 · February 28, 2003, 7:35pm

Also, be careful with dosaging. That is, just because you take 6 capsules doesn’t mean you’re getting 6g. For example, I’ve used the Vitamin World brand (i.e. Tonalin manufactured), and the concentration of conjugated linoleic acid per capsule is about 80%. Therefore, the six caps provide 4.8g of the goods, which is still within the range. Just something I thought I’d point out.

bigarrow · February 28, 2003, 8:04pm

check out this article on cla & guarana