T Nation

Civil Disobedience wrt Obamacare

Guys, I’ve been thinking that there’s got to be another way.

Both the repeal strategy and the USSC strategy - the more I think about it - are not to be entirely relied upon. Too many things could go wrong.

We need a third way in addition to those two. So while squatting this morning, I began entertaing rather violent revenge fantasies. LOL. You should have seen what I imagined I did to the IRS agent who stuck his nose in my business.

Anyhoo, then I saw this excellent piece in Forbes here: http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/23/obamacare-politics-united-states-reform-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia.html?boxes=opinionschannellighttop

Excerpted here:

[quote] Any strategy of nonviolent civil resistance has to first make a good faith effort to achieve its end through the available political and legal means. But there comes a time when changing the law requires acts of conscience.

For opponents of ObamaCare that time is Dec. 31, 2013. That’s when the individual mandate will go into effect. If ObamaCare hasn’t been repealed by Congress or nullified in court by then, its opponents would be justified in urging Americans to refuse to buy coverage or pay fines and dare authorities to come after them.

By some estimates, Uncle Sam will need to hire an additional 17,000 IRS agents or so just to enforce the coverage mandate. But even if a few million Americans simultaneously refuse to abide by it, they could easily overwhelm the system. Self-rule or swaraj, Gandhi said, requires a collective understanding of the immense capacity of citizens to “regulate and control” the coercive apparatus of the state through mass nonviolent resistance.

President Obama and his fellow Democrats are counting on this resistance petering out. That could happen. But it will be a lot easier for opponents to maintain this zeal in the age of social networking. Facebook already has numerous groups with millions of members demanding the repeal of ObamaCare. It won’t be impossible to mobilize enough of them when the denouement arrives. [/quote]

What thinkest?

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Guys, I’ve been thinking that there’s got to be another way.

Both the repeal strategy and the USSC strategy - the more I think about it - are not to be entirely relied upon. Too many things could go wrong.

We need a third way in addition to those two. So while squatting this morning, I began entertaing rather violent revenge fantasies. LOL. You should have seen what I imagined I did to the IRS agent who stuck his nose in my business.

Anyhoo, then I saw this excellent piece in Forbes here: http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/23/obamacare-politics-united-states-reform-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia.html?boxes=opinionschannellighttop

Excerpted here:

[quote] Any strategy of nonviolent civil resistance has to first make a good faith effort to achieve its end through the available political and legal means. But there comes a time when changing the law requires acts of conscience.

For opponents of ObamaCare that time is Dec. 31, 2013. That’s when the individual mandate will go into effect. If ObamaCare hasn’t been repealed by Congress or nullified in court by then, its opponents would be justified in urging Americans to refuse to buy coverage or pay fines and dare authorities to come after them.

By some estimates, Uncle Sam will need to hire an additional 17,000 IRS agents or so just to enforce the coverage mandate. But even if a few million Americans simultaneously refuse to abide by it, they could easily overwhelm the system. Self-rule or swaraj, Gandhi said, requires a collective understanding of the immense capacity of citizens to “regulate and control” the coercive apparatus of the state through mass nonviolent resistance.

President Obama and his fellow Democrats are counting on this resistance petering out. That could happen. But it will be a lot easier for opponents to maintain this zeal in the age of social networking. Facebook already has numerous groups with millions of members demanding the repeal of ObamaCare. It won’t be impossible to mobilize enough of them when the denouement arrives. [/quote]

What thinkest?
[/quote]

Good idea, and I am for it 100%. Come and Take it.

Even 3 years after 9/11 people did not really care anymore, and did not want to go get the ones who masterminded it. I guess since Obamacare will hit people’s pocket books directly then this might spur them to do something about it.

I am trying to have faith in our system that this bill will be overturned. It is hard to beleive that our forefathers wanted a bill was to be passed while simultaniously a change to the bill is being worked on to pay back the people who voted for the bill. This just seems against what the Constitution was all about. I would prefer the bill to stay the same way it is now so Union Cadillac Plans will be taxed like the rest of us.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
Guys, I’ve been thinking that there’s got to be another way.

Both the repeal strategy and the USSC strategy - the more I think about it - are not to be entirely relied upon. Too many things could go wrong.

We need a third way in addition to those two. So while squatting this morning, I began entertaing rather violent revenge fantasies. LOL. You should have seen what I imagined I did to the IRS agent who stuck his nose in my business.

Anyhoo, then I saw this excellent piece in Forbes here: http://www.forbes.com/2010/03/23/obamacare-politics-united-states-reform-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia.html?boxes=opinionschannellighttop

Excerpted here:

[quote] Any strategy of nonviolent civil resistance has to first make a good faith effort to achieve its end through the available political and legal means. But there comes a time when changing the law requires acts of conscience.

For opponents of ObamaCare that time is Dec. 31, 2013. That’s when the individual mandate will go into effect. If ObamaCare hasn’t been repealed by Congress or nullified in court by then, its opponents would be justified in urging Americans to refuse to buy coverage or pay fines and dare authorities to come after them.

By some estimates, Uncle Sam will need to hire an additional 17,000 IRS agents or so just to enforce the coverage mandate. But even if a few million Americans simultaneously refuse to abide by it, they could easily overwhelm the system. Self-rule or swaraj, Gandhi said, requires a collective understanding of the immense capacity of citizens to “regulate and control” the coercive apparatus of the state through mass nonviolent resistance.

President Obama and his fellow Democrats are counting on this resistance petering out. That could happen. But it will be a lot easier for opponents to maintain this zeal in the age of social networking. Facebook already has numerous groups with millions of members demanding the repeal of ObamaCare. It won’t be impossible to mobilize enough of them when the denouement arrives. [/quote]

What thinkest?
[/quote]

I am walking up the gangway to board this ship.[/quote]

Welcome aboard Push. Each man gets a bevvy of ladies and a rather large stock of rum. Heave ho!

Sounds like a good plan. Just in case though, I’m still going gun shopping.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

I am 100% for this. I’ve been contemplating such a plan since I first heard about the inclusion of the “mandatory buy” policy. In the interim I plan to save enough money to be able to pay all medical expenses out of pocket (ala Dave Ramsey style). I really despise the notion that they think they know better than me how to run my life.

Come get me, bitches. I have absolutely no intention of complying with this bullshit mandate.

Are people here planning to drop coverage to purposefully disobey the mandate? I’m all for this, but I have coverage and don’t plan on dropping it.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Are people here planning to drop coverage to purposefully disobey the mandate? I’m all for this, but I have coverage and don’t plan on dropping it.[/quote]

I have catastrophic insurance - I purchased it on my own. The rest I pay out of pocket. I will continue to do so.

Also, depending on your situation, you could choose not to provide evidence that you are, in fact, insured. Not sure about the details of this. Prolly no one does as yet.

[quote]malonetd wrote:
Come get me, bitches. I have absolutely no intention of complying with this bullshit mandate.[/quote]

O’Reilly touched on this last night. He interviewed Congressman Weiner about what would happen if you don’t buy insurance. O’Reilly asked the prick who would come to get him. Weiner had no answer, other than that you would have to pay a fine. O’Reilly again asked, who is going to come ask for this fine. Who is going to collect. Again, no answer, other than, “Bill stop making stuff up.” Bill asks a perfectly good question, of which no one had an answer.

I am with you on this, you want some come get some.

From what I understand there is a minimum standard of amount of money that you must meet or they will hit you with the penalty. Employers will be required to put the amount of money both you and the employer paid toward your healthcare insurance on your W-2. This is how the IRS is going to monitor this.

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
From what I understand there is a minimum standard of amount of money that you must meet or they will hit you with the penalty. Employers will be required to put the amount of money both you and the employer paid toward your healthcare insurance on your W-2. This is how the IRS is going to monitor this.[/quote]

Many will fall outside of this though. I know I will.

Plus, if even 20% of small businesses opt out and refuse to pay, or refuse to report, or participate, maybe that’s enough to collapse the system.

By the way, now I keep seeing petitions circulating among Doctors who are vowing that they will no longer accept insurance. Everything out of pocket. Heh.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
…By the way, now I keep seeing petitions circulating among Doctors who are vowing that they will no longer accept insurance. Everything out of pocket. Heh…[/quote]

Only certain physicians, in certain specialties, in certain areas of the country will be able to afford to do this.

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
…By the way, now I keep seeing petitions circulating among Doctors who are vowing that they will no longer accept insurance. Everything out of pocket. Heh…[/quote]

Only certain physicians, in certain specialties, in certain areas of the country will be able to afford to do this.

Mufasa [/quote]

It doesn’t matter as much if the doctors can afford it, the system cannot. Which is more than likely the point.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
…By the way, now I keep seeing petitions circulating among Doctors who are vowing that they will no longer accept insurance. Everything out of pocket. Heh…[/quote]

Only certain physicians, in certain specialties, in certain areas of the country will be able to afford to do this.

Mufasa [/quote]

It doesn’t matter as much if the doctors can afford it, the system cannot. Which is more than likely the point.[/quote]

???

I think that his point was that the more physicians “opt out” of taking insurance, the more likely the whole plan/recent reforms will fail.

Was there another point I was missing?

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mufasa wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:
…By the way, now I keep seeing petitions circulating among Doctors who are vowing that they will no longer accept insurance. Everything out of pocket. Heh…[/quote]

Only certain physicians, in certain specialties, in certain areas of the country will be able to afford to do this.

Mufasa [/quote]

It doesn’t matter as much if the doctors can afford it, the system cannot. Which is more than likely the point.[/quote]

???

I think that his point was that the more physicians “opt out” of taking insurance, the more likely the whole plan/recent reforms will fail.

Was there another point I was missing?

Mufasa[/quote]

That’s exactly what I was saying.

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]dmaddox wrote:
From what I understand there is a minimum standard of amount of money that you must meet or they will hit you with the penalty. Employers will be required to put the amount of money both you and the employer paid toward your healthcare insurance on your W-2. This is how the IRS is going to monitor this.[/quote]

Many will fall outside of this though. I know I will.

Plus, if even 20% of small businesses opt out and refuse to pay, or refuse to report, or participate, maybe that’s enough to collapse the system.

By the way, now I keep seeing petitions circulating among Doctors who are vowing that they will no longer accept insurance. Everything out of pocket. Heh. [/quote]

I am wondering if this bill will accept HSA payments to meet the minimum. That could be a loop hole that could benefit buying a castastrophy policy and have the HSA underneath it. It could be a way of keeping your money in your pocket. Just a thought.

what is happening it is not civil dis obedience it is criminal disobedience , Even some of those tea bag events border criminal behavior . I do not think i could tolerate some one sticking their finger in my face , I think it would be a fight.

You’re going to be just fine. The country is going to be just fine. Stop being frightened so easily.