T Nation

Citizen Shot By Plainclothes Cops

Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it. [/quote]

Actually I spent 6 years in the Army on 2 deployments. If you want to degrade this 2 name calling we certainly can. It’s easy to isolate 1 heroin junkie to him or herself. Do you realize how many heroin junkies get pregnant? Spread HIV, Hep C and committ crimes while drugged up?

Do you think that making these highly addictive drugs legal, therefore highly taxed and regulated would end the crime associated with them? People will do anything to make the money they need to get their next fix. In my county over half the burgalaries and robberies committed are drug related(money to get rid of the sickness, thats what a junkie calls it when they are kicking). Do you think making this legal is going to stop or increase these crimes?

I know as joe citizen you don’t understand because you never deal with this stuff, this owuld be like me commenting on something in your line of work through misguided info. Get off your high horse about your gun fetish. No one wants to take your gun.

All I care about is making sure street drugs stay illegal. There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine. I for one don’t want to deal with every 18 yr old not only drunk but high on heroin, coke, meth or pcp to boot.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it.

Actually I spent 6 years in the Army on 2 deployments. If you want to degrade this 2 name calling we certainly can. It’s easy to isolate 1 heroin junkie to him or herself. Do you realize how many heroin junkies get pregnant? Spread HIV, Hep C and committ crimes while drugged up? Do you think that making these highly addictive drugs legal, therefore highly taxed and regulated would end the crime associated with them? People will do anything to make the money they need to get their next fix. In my county over half the burgalaries and robberies committed are drug related(money to get rid of the sickness, thats what a junkie calls it when they are kicking). Do you think making this legal is going to stop or increase these crimes?

I know as joe citizen you don’t understand because you never deal with this stuff, this owuld be like me commenting on something in your line of work through misguided info. Get off your high horse about your gun fetish. No one wants to take your gun. All I care about is making sure street drugs stay illegal. There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine. I for one don’t want to deal with every 18 yr old not only drunk but high on heroin, coke, meth or pcp to boot.[/quote]

How much of what you describe is done by drugs and how much of it is done by drug prohibition?

If cocaine and heroin were legal the market could be provide it for a few dollars per kg.

No more need for violent crimes and POOF, all turf wars are gone.

If they were sold over the counter, you could actually identify the producer when his stuff contains impurities or is dosed differently than advertised.

POOF, no more overdosing or spreading of disease through re-usd needles.

And let us not forget how many families and lives are destroyed by detaining non-violent drug users.

So, even if you defend drug prohibition on a purely utilitarian basis, can you really seriously argue that the prohibition approach has done more good than harm?

Also, by confusing the problems caused by drugs and the problems caused by drug prohibition you basically argue that drug prohibition creates so much crime, waste and human suffering that we desperately need more of it.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it.

Actually I spent 6 years in the Army on 2 deployments. If you want to degrade this 2 name calling we certainly can. It’s easy to isolate 1 heroin junkie to him or herself. Do you realize how many heroin junkies get pregnant? Spread HIV, Hep C and committ crimes while drugged up? Do you think that making these highly addictive drugs legal, therefore highly taxed and regulated would end the crime associated with them? People will do anything to make the money they need to get their next fix. In my county over half the burgalaries and robberies committed are drug related(money to get rid of the sickness, thats what a junkie calls it when they are kicking). Do you think making this legal is going to stop or increase these crimes?

I know as joe citizen you don’t understand because you never deal with this stuff, this owuld be like me commenting on something in your line of work through misguided info. Get off your high horse about your gun fetish. No one wants to take your gun. All I care about is making sure street drugs stay illegal. There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine. I for one don’t want to deal with every 18 yr old not only drunk but high on heroin, coke, meth or pcp to boot.[/quote]

First of all- You being a cop doesn’t make you an expert on drugs, at all, so stop talking as if it does.

So an incredibly small percentage of the population are hooked on addictive drugs and a small percentage of that population commits crime to pay for their habit. So we legalize it, and deal with it. Lots of people steal for different reasons- for the rush, for money for bills, for drugs, for food- are you going to outlaw all these too?

Liquor’s legal isn’t it? Despite the fact that we know it impairs an individual, despite the fact that some alcoholics are broke and drink all the time. Imagine if alcoholics had to go to the black market for their “fix”, prices would be extremely inflated and they’d probably resort to crime to be able to afford their bottle. Get it?

And meth or PCP? How many fucking people are using meth and PCP? You want to name the hardest drugs in every argument but the fact is those drugs make up an incredibly small number of drug use. What about people who use things like weed or ecstacy? Where’s your argument against people out looking for donuts and glow sticks?

“There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine” - In terms of how mind altering that’s true, but in terms of health which is what your original argument was, then yes there’s definitely a comparison to be made.

Anyway, I’m sure you have a few drinks here and there, so you’re a gargantuan hypocrite. You think you have a right to do what you want with your body, right? That’s the basic premise of freedom. If a person’s actions don’t interfere with another’s free will or safety, then they should be allowed to take that action. That’s a basic liberty guaranteed to all by the constitution of the United States of America, if you don’t like that or don’t agree with an individual’s right to personal choice than maybe you should leave the country, or run for congress.

I don’t know why you can’t understand the simple fact that cartels and violent gang bangers thrive off of prohibition. You’re essentially encouraging violent gangs to exist, non-violent drug users to be incarcerated, and all the rest of the infinite amount of retardation that comes along with supporting drugs being illegal.

I feel sorry for the guy, but who would have thought the police doesn’t like people carrying guns, concealed or otherwise.

Is there anybody out there who’s in law enforcement and against gun control?

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Is there anybody out there who’s in law enforcement and against gun control?[/quote]

Actually, most of the cops on this site seem to be against gun control. Including our buddy Snipeout here, who started a thread about that very subject.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I feel sorry for the guy, but who would have thought the police doesn’t like people carrying guns, concealed or otherwise.

Is there anybody out there who’s in law enforcement and against gun control?[/quote]

Sigh.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
I feel sorry for the guy, but who would have thought the police doesn’t like people carrying guns, concealed or otherwise.

Is there anybody out there who’s in law enforcement and against gun control?[/quote]

I am dead set against gun control! If you control guns the only thing you do is make it harder for the honest people to own them and protect themselves. The bad guys will always have guns.

For me to purchase another off duty weapon in this state I am subject to the same rules as joe citizen. When I bought my Glock 27 it took 3 months for my permit to purchase to get to me. If some low life wanted to get a gun guess what his waiting period is.

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it.

Actually I spent 6 years in the Army on 2 deployments. If you want to degrade this 2 name calling we certainly can. It’s easy to isolate 1 heroin junkie to him or herself. Do you realize how many heroin junkies get pregnant? Spread HIV, Hep C and committ crimes while drugged up? Do you think that making these highly addictive drugs legal, therefore highly taxed and regulated would end the crime associated with them? People will do anything to make the money they need to get their next fix. In my county over half the burgalaries and robberies committed are drug related(money to get rid of the sickness, thats what a junkie calls it when they are kicking). Do you think making this legal is going to stop or increase these crimes?

I know as joe citizen you don’t understand because you never deal with this stuff, this owuld be like me commenting on something in your line of work through misguided info. Get off your high horse about your gun fetish. No one wants to take your gun. All I care about is making sure street drugs stay illegal. There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine. I for one don’t want to deal with every 18 yr old not only drunk but high on heroin, coke, meth or pcp to boot.

First of all- You being a cop doesn’t make you an expert on drugs, at all, so stop talking as if it does.

So an incredibly small percentage of the population are hooked on addictive drugs and a small percentage of that population commits crime to pay for their habit. So we legalize it, and deal with it. Lots of people steal for different reasons- for the rush, for money for bills, for drugs, for food- are you going to outlaw all these too?

Liquor’s legal isn’t it? Despite the fact that we know it impairs an individual, despite the fact that some alcoholics are broke and drink all the time. Imagine if alcoholics had to go to the black market for their “fix”, prices would be extremely inflated and they’d probably resort to crime to be able to afford their bottle. Get it?

And meth or PCP? How many fucking people are using meth and PCP? You want to name the hardest drugs in every argument but the fact is those drugs make up an incredibly small number of drug use. What about people who use things like weed or ecstacy? Where’s your argument against people out looking for donuts and glow sticks?

“There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine” - In terms of how mind altering that’s true, but in terms of health which is what your original argument was, then yes there’s definitely a comparison to be made.

Anyway, I’m sure you have a few drinks here and there, so you’re a gargantuan hypocrite. You think you have a right to do what you want with your body, right? That’s the basic premise of freedom. If a person’s actions don’t interfere with another’s free will or safety, then they should be allowed to take that action. That’s a basic liberty guaranteed to all by the constitution of the United States of America, if you don’t like that or don’t agree with an individual’s right to personal choice than maybe you should leave the country, or run for congress.

I don’t know why you can’t understand the simple fact that cartels and violent gang bangers thrive off of prohibition. You’re essentially encouraging violent gangs to exist, non-violent drug users to be incarcerated, and all the rest of the infinite amount of retardation that comes along with supporting drugs being illegal.[/quote]

What is it that you do for a living? Unless you’re a drug abuse counselor I would consider myself alot more knowledeable than you. Do you have daily contact with drug users and drug dealers? Let’s forget the drug dealers and stick with users. Do you want to pretend that marijuana would be the only drug people used if it were legalized?

The vast majority of crimes committed are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Do you really want people to have easier access to cocaine, heroin and meth? You may think legalizing these things will fix everything. It won’t. If it is legal alot more people will try it. Crack, meth and heroin are so addictive it only takes one time to turn a person out. We will then have people who otherwise never would have attempted something, addicted to more life ruining substances.

You ever responded to a junkie who smashed his mothers skull in with a hammer to get 10 bucks from her wallet for another bag of heroin? A crackhead who sold their baby for a few rocks? Ever seen a baby born addicted to heroin? You people to have more and easier access to this stuff?

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Inner Hulk wrote:
snipeout wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it.

Actually I spent 6 years in the Army on 2 deployments. If you want to degrade this 2 name calling we certainly can. It’s easy to isolate 1 heroin junkie to him or herself. Do you realize how many heroin junkies get pregnant? Spread HIV, Hep C and committ crimes while drugged up? Do you think that making these highly addictive drugs legal, therefore highly taxed and regulated would end the crime associated with them? People will do anything to make the money they need to get their next fix. In my county over half the burgalaries and robberies committed are drug related(money to get rid of the sickness, thats what a junkie calls it when they are kicking). Do you think making this legal is going to stop or increase these crimes?

I know as joe citizen you don’t understand because you never deal with this stuff, this owuld be like me commenting on something in your line of work through misguided info. Get off your high horse about your gun fetish. No one wants to take your gun. All I care about is making sure street drugs stay illegal. There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine. I for one don’t want to deal with every 18 yr old not only drunk but high on heroin, coke, meth or pcp to boot.

First of all- You being a cop doesn’t make you an expert on drugs, at all, so stop talking as if it does.

So an incredibly small percentage of the population are hooked on addictive drugs and a small percentage of that population commits crime to pay for their habit. So we legalize it, and deal with it. Lots of people steal for different reasons- for the rush, for money for bills, for drugs, for food- are you going to outlaw all these too?

Liquor’s legal isn’t it? Despite the fact that we know it impairs an individual, despite the fact that some alcoholics are broke and drink all the time. Imagine if alcoholics had to go to the black market for their “fix”, prices would be extremely inflated and they’d probably resort to crime to be able to afford their bottle. Get it?

And meth or PCP? How many fucking people are using meth and PCP? You want to name the hardest drugs in every argument but the fact is those drugs make up an incredibly small number of drug use. What about people who use things like weed or ecstacy? Where’s your argument against people out looking for donuts and glow sticks?

“There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine” - In terms of how mind altering that’s true, but in terms of health which is what your original argument was, then yes there’s definitely a comparison to be made.

Anyway, I’m sure you have a few drinks here and there, so you’re a gargantuan hypocrite. You think you have a right to do what you want with your body, right? That’s the basic premise of freedom. If a person’s actions don’t interfere with another’s free will or safety, then they should be allowed to take that action. That’s a basic liberty guaranteed to all by the constitution of the United States of America, if you don’t like that or don’t agree with an individual’s right to personal choice than maybe you should leave the country, or run for congress.

I don’t know why you can’t understand the simple fact that cartels and violent gang bangers thrive off of prohibition. You’re essentially encouraging violent gangs to exist, non-violent drug users to be incarcerated, and all the rest of the infinite amount of retardation that comes along with supporting drugs being illegal.

What is it that you do for a living? Unless you’re a drug abuse counselor I would consider myself alot more knowledeable than you. Do you have daily contact with drug users and drug dealers? Let’s forget the drug dealers and stick with users. Do you want to pretend that marijuana would be the only drug people used if it were legalized?

The vast majority of crimes committed are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Do you really want people to have easier access to cocaine, heroin and meth? You may think legalizing these things will fix everything. It won’t. If it is legal alot more people will try it. Crack, meth and heroin are so addictive it only takes one time to turn a person out. We will then have people who otherwise never would have attempted something, addicted to more life ruining substances.

You ever responded to a junkie who smashed his mothers skull in with a hammer to get 10 bucks from her wallet for another bag of heroin? A crackhead who sold their baby for a few rocks? Ever seen a baby born addicted to heroin? You people to have more and easier access to this stuff?[/quote]

You’re still missing the most fundamental point of my entire argument- IT’S NOT UP TO YOU WHAT A PERSON DOES WITH THEIR OWN BODY. Ok? It’s really not, it’s not up to you, it’s not up to the government, it’s not up to “god”, it’s up to the individual.

And yes, I have been around drug users and drug dealers. I dabbled in shit in my younger years. Granted I haven’t done anything for years now, but I knew a lot of dealers and a lot of users.

And this is where I can poke a huge hole in your argument from personal experience: Even though a lot of my friends in my younger years would smoke marijuana, do the occasional ecstacy, or even snort a line every blue moon- almost none of us wanted to touch anything like PCP, crack, or heroin… Not because these drugs were illegal(duh:we were already breaking the law). We didn’t do those drugs because we didn’t want to!

So you’re telling me that millions of Americans who have no interest in drugs are suddenly going to be consumed with a strong desire to hit a crack pipe just because it’s legal??? GET REAL!

Don’t you understand? The harder drugs were easily accessible, we just didn’t WANT to do them. So your argument that hardcore drugs being legalized would cause some kind of widespread usage is ridiculous. The overwhelming majority of people don’t want to use hard drugs, not because they’re illegal, but because they’re hard drugs that can cause serious addiction and physical harm…Even most drug users don’t want to use hard drugs!

But if you criminalize and make them illegal, it sets a platform for a black market to thrive in. If you made toilet paper illegal tomorrow, there’d be a brutal violent black market over that too. Drugs ARE NOT the problem, the LAWS are.

“The vast majority of crimes committed are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol” - Proof?

Says Paul Craig Roberts:

“The law makes it impossible for Americans to defend themselves from police brutality. Law and order conservatives have made it a felony with a long prison sentence to “assault a police officer.” Assaulting a police officer means that if a police thug intends to beat your brains out with his nightstick and you disarm your assailant, you have “assaulted a police officer.” If you are not shot on the spot by his backup, you will be convicted by a “law and order” jury and sent to prison.”

Say No to Cops: A Brief Case for Reduction and Elimination

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:
Well I know two cops that I’ll see goose stepping down the street proud of themselves when the gun confiscations come. You tools can justify just about anything to yourselves can’t you?

Hell, I’d back making smoking illegal if it were done by pregnant chicks. In this way it also hurts their child. But if I want to shoot heroin…my body and my business. If dick cops like you weren’t justifying enforcing immoral and illegal laws then most heroin junkies would meet their end when they meet an armed citizen when they try to mug them. Instead, cops like you two probably pat yourselves on the back when you enforce unconstitutional inner city firearms laws.

In the end, I suppose the reason we don’t see eye to eye is that because as a military man I worked to enhance the sphere of liberty. You guys swear to enforce laws. Oftentimes these two ends are mutually exclusive and only the best of you can walk that line. Here’s to hoping with a little bit of self inflection and critical thinking you will figure out where that line is before you go too far over it.

Actually I spent 6 years in the Army on 2 deployments. If you want to degrade this 2 name calling we certainly can. It’s easy to isolate 1 heroin junkie to him or herself. Do you realize how many heroin junkies get pregnant? Spread HIV, Hep C and committ crimes while drugged up? [/quote]

Were you an MP? Would you let that one isolated junkie alone or would you bring him in? But look, what of the mother who smokes? Really you’re fighting a losing battle there. Why not just take kids from poor people then? The poverty of the parents affects the educational and physical development of the children.[quote]

Do you think that making these highly addictive drugs legal, therefore highly taxed and regulated would end the crime associated with them? People will do anything to make the money they need to get their next fix. In my county over half the burgalaries and robberies committed are drug related(money to get rid of the sickness, thats what a junkie calls it when they are kicking). Do you think making this legal is going to stop or increase these crimes?[/quote]

Actually, I’m not entirely sure we should tax them heavily. That doesn’t get organized crime out of the equation. I’m also well aware of the fact that a great many crimes of property and violence come from drug addicts. I just don’t see why we can’t arrest people for those crimes they commit against others instead of that which they do against themselves. [quote]

I know as joe citizen you don’t understand because you never deal with this stuff, this owuld be like me commenting on something in your line of work through misguided info. Get off your high horse about your gun fetish. No one wants to take your gun.
[/quote]

I’m actually really sympathetic to this position. I’ve had far too many civilians think they know my job better than me. I expect cops have the same problem. I’ve stuck up for you guys when you’ve deserved it. I know I post on lots of gun threads, but I’m not a gunnie. As I’ve said before, it’s a freedom thing. I do have a freedom fetish. It’s what led me to the grunts. I don’t think you’re saying what you are saying with the last sentence there so let me address it as I think you meant it. When AWB 2.0 passses or in the event of a confiscation would you shrug your shoulders and say that that is the law and enforce it or would you refuse to enforce those laws? My problem here is with the attitude. You seem to prize order over liberty. Like it or not, the two share only a very small amount of overlap. If you work within that overlap selflessly then kudos to you, but not many in your profession seem to do that.

I’ve seen this in the Corps and in the event drugs are the only area you suck then you’ll see this too. You know the staff NCO who didn’t do the right thing because he was afraid of hurting his career. What I see is many in your profession who are afraid to ask why they enforce a law or refuse to enforce laws they have no business enforcing. This is too much of a generalization, but as I’ve seen around here, city cops fall under this category, while the guys that work for the sheriff at the county tend to serve with honor and distinction. [quote]

All I care about is making sure street drugs stay illegal. There is no comparing these things to ciggarettes or alcohol, there effects are so different and much more mind altering than any of you can imagine. I for one don’t want to deal with every 18 yr old not only drunk but high on heroin, coke, meth or pcp to boot.[/quote]

Well I don’t want to deal with the stupid college kids across the street when they crank their music. I didn’t want to deal with letting Iraqis pass my checkpoint with AK’s. But that was the right thing to do and I did it. I’ve been on the business end of cops looking at everyone like they’re evil so they can make it home to their family. I’m sure my attitude here makes it hard to believe but I don’t go around flipping off cops. I want to build a good rapport with guys who I may want on my side some day. I think most of you have a stong moral foundation and would be invaluable if you would engage in some self-inflection. Those are men I want to share a fighting hole with.

mike

To Mike,
I don’t think you have a disrespect for cops. I am no longer a street cop, I work as a corrections officer now and have for a while. There has to be a gray area wrt laws and regs. That said, I would never overlook something that would cost me my freedom or my career. As far as looking at people as evil as opposed to good, doing what I do I have to. I live in Ocean County, NJ, we have a population of around 600,000.

Since the jail started their new ID# system in 1985 they have generated around 80,000 ID#'s. #'s are only issued to new customers, old ones keep the same number. That means about 13% of the population has been to jail in this county. Pretty good chance I see a bad guy daily outside of the job. This doesn’t include the people not caught. I don’t treat people shitty. I just give no one the benefit of the doubt, if I do I can get hurt.

To Innerhulk,
My source for crime is my own experience as a cop and now a corrections officer. About 13 years doing this and drugs are a major catalyst for the cause of murder, rape and every other crime committed against people. If you legalize it you make itmuch easier to acquire. You see 13 yr olds smoke ciggarettes right? Well now picture that 13 yr old that saw their 18 yr old brother shoot up and what they will do next. Because something is illegal it takes greater effort and a willingness to do something wrong to acquire it. Once you eliminate the stigma of it being illegal more people will do it, due to the fact of simple availability.

You seem to think I care about controling people. While we are at it why don’t we legalize murder, why shouldn’t people be allowed the ultimate expression of their anger.

I don’t have a desire to argue this anymore, you don’t have near the experience I do with this type of thing. I am sure by your responses that you live a sheltered life. You never answered what you did for a living either. Your experience in the use of some drugs and white collar drug dealing kids is not the same as seeing drug addicts. I could give a shit less about what they do to themselves but they are dangerous to society.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
To Innerhulk,
My source for crime is my own experience as a cop and now a corrections officer. About 13 years doing this and drugs are a major catalyst for the cause of murder, rape and every other crime committed against people. If you legalize it you make itmuch easier to acquire. You see 13 yr olds smoke ciggarettes right? Well now picture that 13 yr old that saw their 18 yr old brother shoot up and what they will do next. Because something is illegal it takes greater effort and a willingness to do something wrong to acquire it. Once you eliminate the stigma of it being illegal more people will do it, due to the fact of simple availability.[/quote]

So you have no proof for your claim, ok, thanks. And by the by, I had a much more difficult time acquiring cigarettes and alcohol when I was a minor than I did any number of illegal drugs. Marijuana and other drugs were easily obtained while I had to jump through hoops for cigarettes or liquor.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
You seem to think I care about controling people. While we are at it why don’t we legalize murder, why shouldn’t people be allowed the ultimate expression of their anger.[/quote]
Are you retarded? Or are you trying to be funny?

Let me repeat, again, since you’re slow- a person’s right to do what they wish SO LONG AS IT DOES NOT DIRECTLY AFFECT ANOTHER’S FREE WILL OR SAFETY IS THEIR RIGHT. Ingesting drugs effects the individual, murder effects another another person.

Comparing it to legalizing murder is so fucking ridiculously absurd and asinine that I almost didn’t respond. You obviously have zero argument to run on if you’re going to start posting ridiculous nonsense like this.

[quote]Snipeout wrote:
I don’t have a desire to argue this anymore, you don’t have near the experience I do with this type of thing. I am sure by your responses that you live a sheltered life. You never answered what you did for a living either. Your experience in the use of some drugs and white collar drug dealing kids is not the same as seeing drug addicts. I could give a shit less about what they do to themselves but they are dangerous to society. [/quote]

You’re running on a whole lot of assumptions, aren’t ya?

I have a blue collar job, the fuck does that have to do with anything? And the majority of people I associated with while I dabbled in things here and there were not white collar kids, not by a long shot.

As for not seeing drug addicts, I personally knew 3 people that overdosed- 2 heroin and 1 by pills. I understand dangers that drugs present, doesn’t change the fact that if every single fucking American wants to get blown out of their mind- THAT’S THEIR RIGHT. Even if I hadn’t ever done drugs, or known any dealers, or knew addicts, or knew people who OD’d- I’d still be RIGHT in saying that drugs should be legal.

I’m glad this “discussion” is over as your responses have been a joke. You’ve sidestepped just about everything I’ve presented because you have no response. Good riddance.

[quote]snipeout wrote:

The vast majority of crimes committed are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Do you really want people to have easier access to cocaine, heroin and meth? You may think legalizing these things will fix everything. It won’t. If it is legal alot more people will try it. Crack, meth and heroin are so addictive it only takes one time to turn a person out. We will then have people who otherwise never would have attempted something, addicted to more life ruining substances.
[/quote]

Don´t know about meth or crack, but 70-90% of all heroin users are NOT addicted.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28809.html

http://www.heroinaddictiondrugrehab.com/

I wonder how addictive those other drugs are.

All the people you see in your line of work are those who can NOT deal with the drugs they are using.

[quote]orion wrote:
snipeout wrote:

The vast majority of crimes committed are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Do you really want people to have easier access to cocaine, heroin and meth? You may think legalizing these things will fix everything. It won’t. If it is legal alot more people will try it. Crack, meth and heroin are so addictive it only takes one time to turn a person out. We will then have people who otherwise never would have attempted something, addicted to more life ruining substances.

Don´t know about meth or crack, but 70-90% of all heroin users are NOT addicted.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28809.html

http://www.heroinaddictiondrugrehab.com/

I wonder how addictive those other drugs are.

All the people you see in your line of work are those who can NOT deal with the drugs they are using.

[/quote]

I’ll be honest man I have never seen a casual heroin user. Then again I do deal with percentage of the population with poor coping skills.

You make a good point I still think it is counterproductive to leagalize something so damaging. There are alot of people on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum who need to be saved from themselves.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
orion wrote:
snipeout wrote:

The vast majority of crimes committed are committed under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Do you really want people to have easier access to cocaine, heroin and meth? You may think legalizing these things will fix everything. It won’t. If it is legal alot more people will try it. Crack, meth and heroin are so addictive it only takes one time to turn a person out. We will then have people who otherwise never would have attempted something, addicted to more life ruining substances.

Don´t know about meth or crack, but 70-90% of all heroin users are NOT addicted.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/28809.html

http://www.heroinaddictiondrugrehab.com/

I wonder how addictive those other drugs are.

All the people you see in your line of work are those who can NOT deal with the drugs they are using.

I’ll be honest man I have never seen a casual heroin user. Then again I do deal with percentage of the population with poor coping skills.

You make a good point I still think it is counterproductive to leagalize something so damaging. There are alot of people on the lower end of the intelligence spectrum who need to be saved from themselves.[/quote]

How could you?

If you are seeing them every day, have your efforts not failed?

And now imagine a world without the war on drugs.

Must we destroy so many lives and use so much resources that could be better used elsewhere in an attempt to save every last stupid asshole bent on self destruction?

Their self destruction is cast out on the world around them. If you incarcerate them for posession and hold them for a year plus a year of rehab you may have saved their lives as well as a would have been victim of their crime. Alot of people can’t help themselves and need intervention.

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Their self destruction is cast out on the world around them. If you incarcerate them for posession and hold them for a year plus a year of rehab you may have saved their lives as well as a would have been victim of their crime. Alot of people can’t help themselves and need intervention.[/quote]

Is this a fucking joke? A felony conviction ruins a life.

You have close relations with any ex cons? I do, reformed men too, and they can’t catch a fucking break because of their past convictions.

You just don’t get it, you really don’t.