T Nation

Chronological Order of My Journey

Hey guys, keeping it brief because I’m at work and filled with the joy of meetings today, here are some cliffs:

STATS: 6’4, 215 lb, ~11% BF, active everyday (heavy weights, hypertrophy, sprints, yoga, flawless diet sans the occasional heavy drinking)

-Last winter felt like sheet all the time. Did the Google, M.D. thing and concluded it was test.

-Posted here, was reprimanded to read stickies (hehe)

-tests came back at 215 total, i don’t recall otherwise off top of my head

-scheduled a follow up with a endocrinologist but simultaneously started DAA and an estrogen blocker. this might have not been smart in hindsight.

-retested in high 400s, felt pretty good but not fantastic. convinced myself i’d just stick with DAA but soon realized that, since its so unknown long term, i’d need to cycle off it. this is mostly concerned with the neurological unknown side effects for me.

-been off it for a few weeks, getting tests done thursday to re-check levels.

HERE’S MY QUESTION…
if my levels come back low, at this point i think it makes sense to go on TRT. I’m 25 years old and my libido is 1/2 of what it should be. not to be a cocky f*ck, but girls fawn over me and i’m really not taking advantage of it nearly as much as I should. in result, my general well being and confidence is shot. this as well as brain fog, mostly first 1/3 of the day, acute fatigue spells and random inability to stay “up” or get “up”

If a doctor is resistent to putting me on TRT, i’d like to go other avenues. what kind of monthly costs are associated with this, and how does one begin? again, I am at work so can’t browse through all stickies ATM. would like a brief answer, if possible.

i know it’s for life. i am well aware and have done extensive research, but there comes a point where i’m fed up with not being the man i should be, when I’ve just turned 25.

thanks for any and all input, and i’ll re-read stickies later when i have some time

DS

There are a lot of posts here re guys who are 19-22 years old with similar problems. Read some of these.

We more lab data, as per stickies.

Your LH/FSH numbers are very important to start finding out what is wrong and perhaps fixing it.

Get more specific: “DAA and an estrogen blocker”

[quote]KSman wrote:
There are a lot of posts here re guys who are 19-22 years old with similar problems. Read some of these.

We more lab data, as per stickies.

Your LH/FSH numbers are very important to start finding out what is wrong and perhaps fixing it.

Get more specific: “DAA and an estrogen blocker”[/quote]

Sure…took 3 grams of SNS DAA throughout the spring and summer, stopped intermittently maybe twice for a week or 2 each time.

supplemented for the first few weeks of introduction with Clomid, but only as an initial combatant and ceased usage shortly thereafter.

will continue reading and will post labs when i get them back on Thursday or Friday.

Regards

Got results, pls help decipher:

Albunen- 4.5 (3.5-5.1)
Total- 509.9 (241-827)
Globulin- 42.1 (17.3-65.8)
Test Bio: 221 (130-680)
Test FREE: 90 (47-244)

Edit the above and add lab ranges.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Edit the above and add lab ranges.[/quote]
all set

any input?

TT seems OK, FT is low for 25YO.

You need LH/FSH when not taking anything

Also need E2, DHEA-S, CBC, TSH, ALT, AST, fasting cholesterol, glucose.

So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?

There is a possibility that clomid is causing a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes, E2 lab while on clomid would answer that question. If E2 is up, SHBG may be up, explaining reduced FT.

[quote]KSman wrote:
TT seems OK, FT is low for 25YO.

You need LH/FSH when not taking anything

Also need E2, DHEA-S, CBC, TSH, ALT, AST, fasting cholesterol, glucose.

So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?

There is a possibility that clomid is causing a lot of T–>E2 inside the testes, E2 lab while on clomid would answer that question. If E2 is up, SHBG may be up, explaining reduced FT.

[/quote]

hi… thanks for the response…

The blood tests I took were OFF of DAA and Clomid- I had been off DAA for 2 weeks when I drew blood, and Clomid for 6 months.

do you recommend I get the other tests done? also- do you recommend trying clomid again with my DAA?

Yes, you need those labs, when not on DAA for a week or so. We need your baseline data.

So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?
So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?
So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?

[quote]KSman wrote:
Yes, you need those labs, when not on DAA for a week or so. We need your baseline data.

So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?
So you train intensely and never have any recovery time?
So you train intensely and never have any recovery time? [/quote]

i workout 6-7 days/week; 4 days of intense lifting, 1 day of track work and 1-2 days of yoga. my off day is either substituting a yoga session for rest, or conjoining a track workout with a lift and resting on the other.

We do know that over-training can kill hormones. Ditto low cholesterol, extreme diets and low fat intake. There is a sticky concerning things that affect your hormones.

[quote]KSman wrote:
We do know that over-training can kill hormones. Ditto low cholesterol, extreme diets and low fat intake. There is a sticky concerning things that affect your hormones.[/quote]

interesting…will look into. My only question, generally speaking, is to what extent these can hurt hormone levels in the short and long term?

We have seen guys go extreme and end up with hypogonadism. Problems had been persistent, so had not gone away, thus considered long term. But everyone is different, you cannot take things like that and make assumptions about your self, only guiding suspicions.

so i found my lab results from 4/20/2012:

Albunen- 4.5 (3.5-5.1)
Total- 219 (241-827)
Globulin- 40.5 (17.3-65.8)
Test Bio: 205 (130-680)
Test FREE: 33 (47-244)

alls i can say is, WOW…

2 weeks OFF of DAA (Most recent):
Albunen- 4.5 (3.5-5.1)
Total- 509.9 (241-827)
Globulin- 42.1 (17.3-65.8)
Test Bio: 221 (130-680)
Test FREE: 90 (47-244)

My original results from 2 weeks ON DAA and Clomid for the first time, back in May of 2012.

Albunen- 4.6 (3.5-5.1)
Total- 571 (241-827)
Globulin- 44.3 (17.3-65.8)
Test Bio: 228 (130-680)
Test FREE: 97 (47-244)

i think i’ll stick on this route- feeling good any i don’t perceive it as a necessity to do a HRT at this point.

anything else i might not be doing that could help aid my free test? I know there are scruples with people that say you CAN boost it naturally (significantly), but any positive insight would be great.

If you want to fix this problem, you need to be off and get LH/FSH. All we know now is that you are 25YO and have low T.

I suggested labs earlier. Please focus on what I suggest and not some pill that will make things better.

thanks for the reply. in terms of DAA, how long should i be “off” to obtain realistic labs ?

Unknown, but you will feel down.