T Nation

Christians and Taxes

Since there seem to be quiet a few Christians on this forum, would some of them be willing to post about what being Christian means when it comes to paying taxes?

Things like:

Do you have to pay taxes?

Always, never, some of the time?

What taxes does a Christian have to pay?

Could you withhold money from the state if the state funded abortion clinics/wars/mosques/whatever else you feel could be problematic.

Is the state your master that can demand obedience or your servant that can demand to be paid for the work you make him do?

Give to Cesar what is Cesar’s, give to God what is God’s.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Give to Cesar what is Cesar’s, give to God what is God’s.[/quote]

That however was an answer to a question that was supposed to trick Jesus, he never qualified what is Caesars.

Also, we have no more Caesars, we are, supposedly, the sovereign.

How come our servants make US pay?

Is this a joke?

Of course christians have to pay taxes just like everybody else. There’s plenty of shit that my tax dollars go to that I don’t support, I still have to pay, so why would someone else have the right to pick and choose based on their religion.

Yes, he did qualify what he said. He asked who’s picture is on a dinari (sp?).

LOL.

Awesome Orion.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
LOL.

Awesome Orion.[/quote]

Not seeing the awesomeness. Sounds like yet another pig trying to incite someone to throw him some free pearls.

Obviously, a lot of you do not get it.

I posted a few days ago that was working on a paper that is about the ethics of taxes.

There are a few ideas about the legitimacy of taxes and as HH has posted in another thread, religious people are usually better at making ethical arguments.

Or maybe RJ does get it, yes I would like you to throw me some pearls, if you are prepared to discuss them.

LOL. Let’s see how many people walk into this one.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
Yes, he did qualify what he said. He asked who’s picture is on a dinari (sp?).[/quote]

True but that must have been meant as a metaphor.

You would not argue that you owe your taxes to Benjamin Franklin?

The Euro does not even have people on the bills, do I owe money to a bridge?

What is the supposed principle behind it and does it still apply today?

[quote]orion wrote:
Obviously, a lot of you do not get it.

I posted a few days ago that was working on a paper that is about the ethics of taxes.

There are a few ideas about the legitimacy of taxes and as HH has posted in another thread, religious people are usually better at making ethical arguments.

Or maybe RJ does get it, yes I would like you to throw me some pearls, if you are prepared to discuss them.

[/quote]

Your reputation precedes you. If you really want to have a discussion, you gotta promise to take the gloves off. No sracstic, frog-licking induced rants.

[quote]MarvelGirl wrote:
Is this a joke?
[/quote]
No.

Why does everybody else have to pay taxes?

Is it true that everybody else has to pay taxes, just because someone feels obliged to?

What if a Christian feels he must pay taxes but does in no way expect you to do the same?

Yet you feel that your believe that you have to pay taxes binds all Christians as well? Why?

[quote]
There’s plenty of shit that my tax dollars go to that I don’t support, I still have to pay, so why would someone else have the right to pick and choose based on their religion.[/quote]

Because God>State?

Is nothing more important to you than the states commands?

Do you have an ethical obligation to pay for wars of aggression, bridges to nowhere or the bailout of millionaires?

[quote]rainjack wrote:
orion wrote:
Obviously, a lot of you do not get it.

I posted a few days ago that was working on a paper that is about the ethics of taxes.

There are a few ideas about the legitimacy of taxes and as HH has posted in another thread, religious people are usually better at making ethical arguments.

Or maybe RJ does get it, yes I would like you to throw me some pearls, if you are prepared to discuss them.

Your reputation precedes you. If you really want to have a discussion, you gotta promise to take the gloves off. No sracstic, frog-licking induced rants.
[/quote]

I always believed that gentleman would keep the gloves on?

If we pretended for a moment to be gentleman.

[quote]orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Yes, he did qualify what he said. He asked who’s picture is on a dinari (sp?).

True but that must have been meant as a metaphor.

You would not argue that you owe your taxes to Benjamin Franklin?

The Euro does not even have people on the bills, do I owe money to a bridge?

What is the supposed principle behind it and does it still apply today?[/quote]

I don’t know, you seem very educated, enlighten me.
/sarcasm

Hah! Frog licking induced rants, classic rj, classic.

[quote]orion wrote:

I always believed that gentleman would keep the gloves on?

If we pretended for a moment to be gentleman.

[/quote]

I’ll pretend if you will.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Yes, he did qualify what he said. He asked who’s picture is on a dinari (sp?).

True but that must have been meant as a metaphor.

You would not argue that you owe your taxes to Benjamin Franklin?

The Euro does not even have people on the bills, do I owe money to a bridge?

What is the supposed principle behind it and does it still apply today?

I don’t know, you seem very educated, enlighten me.
/sarcasm

Hah! Frog licking induced rants, classic rj, classic.[/quote]

Excuse me, the Christian theory of taxation cannot be:

“Render unto caesar…”

Case closed- Without ever specifying “what is Caesars?”. Or what if if there are no more Caesars?

See here for a more detailed discussion of catholic tax teachings:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?cfid=107947&cftoken=31306486&abstract_id=74420

You can download it for free.

[quote]orion wrote:
MarvelGirl wrote:
Is this a joke?

No.

Of course christians have to pay taxes just like everybody else.

Why does everybody else have to pay taxes?

Is it true that everybody else has to pay taxes, just because someone feels obliged to?

What if a Christian feels he must pay taxes but does in no way expect you to do the same?

Yet you feel that your believe that you have to pay taxes binds all Christians as well? Why?

There’s plenty of shit that my tax dollars go to that I don’t support, I still have to pay, so why would someone else have the right to pick and choose based on their religion.

Because God>State?

Is nothing more important to you than the states commands?

Do you have an ethical obligation to pay for wars of aggression, bridges to nowhere or the bailout of millionaires?

[/quote]

What does your survey of New Testament ethics tell you thus far?

It’s not immoral to submit to taxation collected through the threat of violence/imprionment. Then again, I’m not sure it would be immoral to refuse, either. The only thing I’m clear on is that Christ wasn’t prepared to lead a tax revolution.

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
orion wrote:
MarvelGirl wrote:
Is this a joke?

No.

Of course christians have to pay taxes just like everybody else.

Why does everybody else have to pay taxes?

Is it true that everybody else has to pay taxes, just because someone feels obliged to?

What if a Christian feels he must pay taxes but does in no way expect you to do the same?

Yet you feel that your believe that you have to pay taxes binds all Christians as well? Why?

There’s plenty of shit that my tax dollars go to that I don’t support, I still have to pay, so why would someone else have the right to pick and choose based on their religion.

Because God>State?

Is nothing more important to you than the states commands?

Do you have an ethical obligation to pay for wars of aggression, bridges to nowhere or the bailout of millionaires?

What does your survey of New Testament ethics tell you thus far?
[/quote]

That it´s all over the place, but usually for theological reasons I don´t understand.

For example priests that took confessions were not supposed to bring up the topic of tax evasion unless the confessing person regarded it as a sin what he did.

It seems that there are some ways to sin that are only sinful if you believe them to be sinful?

Or maybe you are supposed to know yourself how much taxation is fair and if you do not think it is the priest is no better judge than you?

[quote]orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
orion wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
Yes, he did qualify what he said. He asked who’s picture is on a dinari (sp?).

True but that must have been meant as a metaphor.

You would not argue that you owe your taxes to Benjamin Franklin?

The Euro does not even have people on the bills, do I owe money to a bridge?

What is the supposed principle behind it and does it still apply today?

I don’t know, you seem very educated, enlighten me.
/sarcasm

Hah! Frog licking induced rants, classic rj, classic.

Excuse me, the Christian theory of taxation cannot be:

“Render unto caesar…”

Case closed- Without ever specifying “what is Caesars?”. Or what if if there are no more Caesars?

See here for a more detailed discussion of catholic tax teachings:

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?cfid=107947&cftoken=31306486&abstract_id=74420

You can download it for free.

[/quote]

I do not practice catholicism myself.

The point is that if you want the “Christian” answer to the question, it is written in front of you because Jesus was asked the exact question. He answered it pretty directly IMO.

If you are trying to lure people into a dogmatic debate, good luck.

However, the point of the story wasn’t about Christians or taxes, but a reflection on asking a loaded question to try and crap on someone’s beliefs. Maybe you should re-read it a couple of times for personal benefit.