T Nation

Chrises article

I love you guys.

More than one Chris wrote that article?

God bless Joerg Haider and the Freedom Party.

Excellent rebuttals, T-Nation (you rock, Polar Princess!)

And JaredNFS: O-Ring? Classic, dude! And I agree with your sentiments exactly.

Theodore comes out with a typical ill-informed anti-U.S. post, and as I’m trying to collect my thoughts for a proper rebuttal myself, Say pops up with an even more asinine post and then I lose my train of thought!

Thanks for putting into words what I wanted to say, guys!

P.S. “Chrises”, you absolutely rock, dude!

I’m one American who proudly agrees with your view of how we’ve come to adapt after September 11.

Outstanding article.

Thanks to those that enjoyed the article! Feedback has been very good, about 95% positive out of dozens of e-mails and PMs.

I have noticed a pattern in the few negative responses however.

  1. Those that didn’t like the article usually aren’t American. I just find that rather odd since it was an article written about an American issue (self defense in this particular country), in an American magazine (T-mag), by an American writer (that would be me.) So I’m just not sure why any non-American would need to offer his opinion. I mean, I wouldn’t read a French article in a French magazine written by a French writer about a French social issue and then think I needed to tell him that I disagree with him (or try to insult him.) Nothing against non-Americans of course, I just find it odd.

  2. As has been pointed out, a couple assumed it had something to do with Iraq. It did not. The only time Iraq is mentioned was in the line that said, “This also has nothing to do with Iraq…”

  3. Then of course there are the typical knee-jerkers who read half the article, jump to conclusions, put words in my mouth that I didn’t say or write, then go off on a tangent about whatever issue is stuck in their craws (oddly, this issue usually has nothing to do with what was written).

So, overall, a very successful article! Thanks all!

Dear Chris,

your point one is very good - you would never read a french paper - and I believe you. It confirms my opinion that most of you philosophy comes from “Flex”, “The armed redneck”, “boops” and that crap propaganda tv (CNN).
Most americans have no idea about what the world thinks of them, good luck that you dont find out. The topic of americans killing people without a proper UN resultion is no internal topic - its a crime against humanity as was 9/11.

To point two - my main problem is, that you (and the american politicians) follow the exactly same arguments facist dictators followed. Of course we ignore the UN - UN is not working/not doing what we want. You ignore all supernational authority. This argument can be used by the terrorists of 9/11 as well. You attack with the same legal justification - none.

About not reading or understanding your article - it just annoyed me, that it is a typical example of american ignorance against the world community. No word about winning over the majority, no word about civil casualties, burnt children.

Yes, your article was successful - 95% of your readers go with you, as the majority of Americans go with Bush. But the fact is also that 95% of the worlds population start hating the US and military power never secures an empire forever.

If you dont respect international law, dont respect religion (all major religious leaders were against this war), dont respect humanity, what do you respect?


Can I say u rock even if Im not an american?

Even if I can’t - screw that, you rock for my money dude.


Again, Adal, you are totally missing the point. You are fitting perfectly into #3 of the categories Chris listed.

adal, Chris never took a political stand in his article, so please don’t try to fill in his thoughts for him. He only expressed the idea of defending one’s own. If you have a problem with self-defense, then there is no hope of reasoning with you.

While I understand why much of the rest of the world hates their conception of what an American is, the rest of the world has a poor impression of what a real American is. You reek of bigotry and stereotypes, which would actually make you a hypocrite, considering the accusations you have made. You are a hateful, sad person. Reasoning with you would be an exercise in futility, as your opinion is only fueled by hate and jealousy, not fact and reason.

Self defense? Attacking a country that has nothing to do with 9/11 and doesnt even posess weapons that can endanger the US is self defense?

Killing civilians and burning children is self defense? Well Hitler also said that he self defended against Poland …

And btw. Fact and reason: Read up the charter of the united nations that america has to accept - escpecially chapters 41, 42 and 51 and you will see that Bush has the same justification for that attacking war as does Bin Laden - none.

That puts the american soldiers on the same level with the terrorists of 9/11.

Well this has been entertaining. Adal had actually brought up one good point, most Americans don’t know what people overseas think of them. We really don’t. What I found in nearly five years of expatriation, and twenty some years of travel, is that while most people may have not liked America, they loved Americans as individuals. (It helped that we were spending money) Countless times I have been confronted over U.S. foreign policy, and had to point out that I didn’t make the policy, so yelling at me wasn’t going to do any good. Does the rest of the world hate us? Some of it does, simply because they disagree with what we do, or dislike our values. That is fine, they are perfectly free to do so. Of course, the reason that a number of European nations have any freedom, is because we fought for it. Go over to Normandy and look at the rows of gravestones there. Those men lie there that other people might be free. And yes, most of the worlds religions have been opposed to this war, but that tends to be the nature of religions in general, to oppose violence. Except for some religions, who only oppose violence when it’s not them who are perpetrating it. Although I wouldn’t get too carried away with the whole “Religious leaders are against this” argument. I’ve seen some classic photos of the Pope greeting Hitler, and Cardinals giving the Nazi salute. Kind of takes the wind out of Michaels Moores sails.

Adal, I’ll try to type this slowly so you’ll understand. The article was not about foreign policy, Iraq or international relations. Read that again. Get a translator if necessary. Chris has never given his opinion on the war or any such topic, at least in print or here on the forum. He only mentioned 9/11 as the event that woke people up to threats.

adal - About the self defense point that you brought up. You again intertwined the Iraq siutuation. Amazing.

And comparing the United States’ actions in Iraq to Bin Laden’s against NY? That’s fucking insane. While both may not be “legal” to a governing body with no power, Bin Laden’s attempt was to harm as many innocent civilians as possible. If the United States had wanted to do the same, you would have known it. Baghdad would have been a radioactive parking lot if that were the USes :slight_smile: agenda.

Saddam gassing lots of people in Iraq, kurds was it? And torturing and murdering a great many other citizens. I wouldn’t call that self-defense, either.

Fuck you adal, fuck you in your stupid ass.


Self defence in the united nations charter as defined in articles 41, 42 and 51 of that charter cannot be argued with saddams actions against his countries people.

Face it - the american attack was terror, an attack against undefended civilians with no legal justification. Your only argument can and should be - fuck it we are strong we break every law because we can.

And I will tell you that exactly that attitude marks the beginning of the end for the american terror against world opinion.

And BTW StefenF - your anal experiences - I suppose you are member of the national guard and/or the NRA - are of no particular interest to me, so I have to refuse your offer.

adal - Believe whatever makes you feel better about yourself. I truly hope it makes you a happy person.

Well Said Jared.

This is another example of someone whos been so brainwashed there entire lives that no matter what is said Adal thinks he is right and we are wrong.

It’s like trying to convince a pig that rolling around in your own shit is nasty.

Which is what hes doing.