T Nation

Chrises article

Dear Chris,

I always enjoy your articles - today is no exception. While most of the time you confirm
european prejudice of americans being plain stupid, this time you show it takes ignorance
of law, stupid machism and facism too to be really called an american.

To connect 9/11 with the war on iraque only shows, that you media consumption does
not exceed “Flex”, “The armed redneck” and “boops”. There is nor proof whatsoever
of any connection - this war is about world dominance.

Please continue your uneducated nonsense - we have great fun pinning your articles
to the black board of our gym and lough about the simpleminded errors. Your are
the living example of “Stupid white men” - and the reason why after some more
terror attacks by the ignorants of white house America will eventually go down.

BTW - not that I think you will understand it - this war will increase terror - you cant kill
terror with terror. America is the main terrorist country by ignoring the kyoto protocol and
polluting the world we all live in and attacking against international law. No american will
be safe anywhere after that. You copy the successfull anti terror strategies of israel - stupid!
You pulled the enemies of terror - european intellctuals - aigainst you - I was working
in the US and a big US fan - now I am an enemy - an easy enemy as a pacifist, but there
are others.

Many of my turkish friends in Austria who were pro america and went here to have
small shops, now have muslim flags in there windows and talk about jihad. You
did that! This is a war you cant win with weapons - think of the breakdown of
the roman empire (though I dont think you heard about that as a victim of the
american education system).

Please go back and talk about tits - you seem to understand more of that than about world


You should have sent this to the Reader Mail feedback section of T-mag.

Since your reading skills are lacking, let me paste the first few lines of Chris’s article here:

“It’s also not about the war in Iraq, although it’s easy to draw that conclusion. This is about taking a stand and not being a victim. It’s about protecting yourself and those around you.”

Remember, always READ first, then RANT.

“You pulled the enemies of terror - european intellctuals”

This absolutely says it all.

Adal, you confirm every stereotype we have of neutered, appease all at any cost, black and white thinking Euro-snob that can’t imagine the world not revolving around Europe anymore.

You didn’t even really READ the article, did you? You just assumed that it was “another American” ranting about war. Your post says far more about you than you’d like.

BTW, I’m quite aware that all Europeans don’t fit into this stereotype, so please spare me the flames about that.

Maybe it’s the neurotic school teacher in me, but I can’t ignore this one.

First off, Chris’s (not Chrises) article is an EDITORIAL. As such it contains his own opinions. That’s the purpose of op/ed articles. To generalize from this and conclude that all Americans are stupid is faulty logic on your part. Besides, the man has the right to free speech. In turn, if you dislike what he’s saying, you have the freedom to self censor and NOT READ.

Secondly, as Zev so rightly points out, this is a letter that should properly have been sent to Reader Mail, not the forum.

Thirdly, if you are going to mock others for allegedly being uneducated and simpleminded, you should take some care not to reveal your own ignorance in you post. Slinging insults at someone does not in any way invalidate or refute the points that person has made. It only serves to make you look like a small minded boor. I was amused to hear that you, with your atrocious spelling and grammar, had the nerve to “lough” at Chris and his “facism”.

If you wish to be taken seriously, take the time to proofread what you’ve written, think through what you’re saying and present valid counterarguments and evidence rather than mere insult. Otherwise you’ll be the one getting “loughed” at.

Wow! Where did this fruit cake come from? I guess he doesn’t know that inebriation is catabolic. Poor soul. I wish I could reach out and help him with his demons.

Thanks for the input Adal, tell the ayatollah I said hello

Good, good…
I like this post.

wake up to the real world… so much concealed and unconcealed threats, concealed and unconcealed hatred and fear in this post.

Know who u r dealing with here…

I bet some of u will be nice to this snake… “who was a u.s fan” as long as it was the u.s the chris described as sitting on her collective butt…

now he’s scared, he cant play bully anymore.

U cant talk about Jihad all you want mister, thats all u do u whackos, talk.
Im not sorry for u, what Im realy sorry for is ur kids, who will have no hope, growing up with all this hatred, their only “hope” in hurting the other…


Didn’t Chris CLEARLY preface his column with the following statement:

“It’s also not about the war in Iraq, although it’s easy to draw that conclusion. This is about taking a stand and not being a victim. It’s about protecting yourself and those around you.”

His sentiments seemed Universal, and NOT conmfined to a Region, Religion or belief system…


Now im known to have some pretty extreme views with me being a cop and all.

But if half of the people in the U.S Had the same beliefs as Mr Shugart it would fix alot of the problems we have today.

I applaud you Chris. Great article.

adal, I’m going to assume that English is not your first language. If it is, then you calling anything simpleminded is the purest of irony. So, going on the assumption that you didn’t grow up reading English, I would like to suggest that you work on your reading comprehension skills in English before ranting in such a manner.

I’m an intermediate German reader. I would never dream of going to a German message board and going off on one of the writers there while only being 60% certain of what the author was saying. We generally take it easy on foreigners posting on this board, but they typically aren’t insulting the intelligence of the writers. Right now, you are coming across as an illiterate, simpleminded bigot, and that’s just not cool.

To Adal

That article is total nonsense. You don’t stop violence with more violence. The UK is finally learning with the IRA that violence doesn’t work. You must listen to the grievances.


First post - $2.50 per hour @ Cyber Bits Cafe

21 spelling errors - Free with English as a second (or third) language

Incoherent understanding of original article - Compliments of ignorance

Discovering that Say has a Turkish Brother - PRICELESS


“The mark of your ignorance is the depth of your belief in injustice and tragedy. What the caterpillar calls the end of the world, the Master calls the butterfly”

~ Richard Bach

Why do all non-americans refer to the US as a white nation. I don’t have any facts on this, but I would have to say that the US is the most diverse nation in the world. In my company alone we have white americans, black americans, mexicans, hondorans, and cubans. My company also only employs around 30 people.

Man I dig this string…

Here I am, ?cheat meal Saturday? having a nice plate of Freedom (formerly French) toast, and reading the rebuttal from Adal.

I agree with DOCT but I’m not as to-the-point as he is.

The IRA being compared to our actions in Iraq?

Kyoto Protocol?

Doesn’t anyone remember that we tried diplomacy with Iraq? We gave extensions to Saddam, along with avenues of escape and surrender before whole thing even started. The UN was in error not siding with us from the get go.

I’m with President Bush on the war issue, terrorism needs to go away, and the primary thing we need to ensure is our safety as Americans. What we’re doing to Iraq sends a clear message to terrorists and governments with less than favourable intentions. Shape the fuck up, or WE (coalition)will take care of your behavior for you. If organizations have even breathed the words ?kill Americans,? we?re coming after you. Arab Nations were misinformed about how strong our resolve is. Maybe they thought this was going to be another Mogadishu, they were grossly mistaken. This new administration has a President who?s Dad bailed off the wing of a bomber after being shot in WWII. We also have a Secretary of State who believed in torching villages in order to send a message to the VC supporters, and bled on the battlefields of Vietnam in the hope of saving a country from Communist rule. This is a drastic change from the previous administration that had hardly any intentions of stomping out terror or our enemies.

Is this whole thing nice and flowery? No.
Is it necessary? Yes.
We’re all humans who have the right to live in freedom, not in fear of our bus blowing up or getting electrodes stuck to our balls for not winning a boxing match.

If your Turkish neighbors are talking “Jihad” and waving a piece of fucking fabric and you don’t like it then be a T-man and quell it. Boycott their business, spread the word to your friends, get Johnny Law involved, publish your concerns in editorials to the news, do what ever it is you do to get attention focused on an issue and get it taken care of. Intervene, interrupt, and intercept their bullshit.

I know of more than a few Iraqi owned businesses here in Southern California, none of who are waving flags and preaching about Jihad. These Iraqi expats are ecstatic about the current state of their homeland. If we?re guilty of your current problems with Turks in your neighborhood, then why aren?t IRAQI shop owners doing it here?

If these Turks are so upset about what is happening in the Arab nations then why are they in Austria?

We can all agree that this war is going to take time, but the end product, even though it has to be re-created from the ground up, is going to be a good thing.

Man I dig this string.

Say - you’re right. You can’t stop violence with violence. So when I get a large, strong gay friend of mine to hold you down and rape your o-ring until blood is running down your leg and you’re begging for mercy, don’t fight back.

Fucking idiot.

True as this may be, this nation has been white ruled for such a large portion of its history that it is somewhat inevitable that some would still refer to it as such. Remember that the formal legal institutions of racial discrimination were only eliminated ~35 years ago. It takes a while to live down such perceptions as are generated by those laws. Furthermore this nation has never had a non-white president-- and only a couple non protestant presidents for that matter-- and has never had more than a handful of non-white-christian legislative representatives at any given time. The American nation is certainly quite diverse, but its leadership still is not. The political currents are changing with the demographics though; give it a few more decades.

Thread Hijacking–

Though the arguement presented here by ada was not too compelling --as unfortunatly neither were most of the responses-- it does remind me of another thought. I am bothered by the apparent acceptance Americans have of the degradation of the nation’s image abroad. Whether you like it or not, image does have a very real effect on how foreigners behave towards the US and its citizens. Does hostility towards non-aggressively-hostile (in material policy) foreigner states really help further the US’s interests? (I’m not refering to this thread in this question by the way) Does it at least not hinder US interests? Or would you argue that a more aggressive “speak loudly while carrying as big stick” policy is more effective over the long term? What footing is most apropriate in dealing with non cooperative, but non hostile nations? Any intelligent thoughts? I ask these questions because I have seen views posted which would seem to cover the whole spectrum of possibilities covered in those questions.

Stupid topic, nevermind.

A note to BradTGIF-
Those that argue that military action increases terrorism do so because of the assumption that terrorists are not afraid to die (or more accurately they perceive the costs of inaction–sq-- as greater than the costs of action, e.g. death). The argument would further assert that military action against terrorists sufficiently damage the sq (through both material “collateral” damage and through intangible “ideological” effects) of a sufficient number of non-participants (non-terrorists) who will then be compelled to undertake terrorist actions as to outweigh the effects of the initial anti-terrorist action. That?s is the argument made against? I?m sick of typing.