T Nation

Choosing Between Two Workouts


#1

I'm laying out 2 different workouts that I want to run out for the next couple months, with a goal of gaining 20 pounds. A novice, but ready to push my limits. Workout 1 is a 'Boring But Big' while Workout 2 is a 5's Progression + First Set Last.

BBB

Day 1-
OHP 5/3/1
DB Chest Press (50 reps). I'll go 6x8. 2 incline, 2 flat, 2 decline
Chins (50 reps)

Day 2-
Deads 5/3/1
Squat (50 reps)
Core (50 reps)

Day 3-
BP 5/3/1
OHP (50 reps)
Rows (50 reps)

Day 4-
Squat 5/3/1
Deads (50 reps)
Core (50 reps)

5's PRO (5/3/1 except every set is x5) + FSL

Day 1-
OHP 3x5
DB Chest Press 4x8
Chins (50 reps)

Day 2-
Deads 3x5
Squat 4x8
Core (50 reps)

Day 3-
BP 3x5
OHP 4x8
Rows (50 reps)

Day 4-
Squat 3x5
Deads 4x8
Core (50 reps)

Which one would be better for my goals?/ Any suggestions?


Beginner Template Recommendation
Beginner Template Recommendation
#2

20 lbs is a lot to gain if we’re talking quality size. Ideally you’ll go through many templates (going from volume to intensity, rinse & repeat as cycles progress) before this goal is achieved. That and lots of cleanish food, patience, & consistency.


#3

With 5/3/1 templates, while volume might stay pretty constant, intensity progresses, deloads and begins again with a higher weight.

The mass will come depending on how I eat, but if you’re saying I’m going to have to try all kinds of templates for gains as a novice lifter, that’s not the case.


#4

Not what I’m saying. Yes, overalll intensity progresses over a long period of time, ie going from a 225 3 rep max bench to a 275 3 rep max bench over a year or two. What I’m saying is that you progress through templates, slowly decreasing the volume while increasing the relative intensity. An example would be doing boring but big at 50% for two cylces (50 reps of supplemental work), then doing 2 cycles with first set last (around 25 reps of supplemental work). Lots of benefits to this route.


#5

What’s wrong with both? Hint: 5/2 and change 5 pro’s to 5/3/1 FSL

Jim has a forum all to himself. I suggest you read the book first though.


#6

Jim suggested 5’s PRO + FSL to me on his forum last weekend. Mapping it out over a 6-month span, I’m going to want to pair the main lift and assistance lift together (ex. 5’s PRO’s for Squats and FSL for Squats).

You’re right though, the 5’s PRO with FSL seems like a lot of work for a novice. I don’t know if I’ll be able to recover from that. I definitely feel the FSL is essential though as far as progression.

Do you really think I should go 5/3/1 + FSL instead of 5’s PRO + FSL?


#7

[quote]kingbrady wrote:
Jim suggested 5’s PRO + FSL to me on his forum last weekend. Mapping it out over a 6-month span, I’m going to want to pair the main lift and assistance lift together (ex. 5’s PRO’s for Squats and FSL for Squats).

You’re right though, the 5’s PRO with FSL seems like a lot of work for a novice. I don’t know if I’ll be able to recover from that. I definitely feel the FSL is essential though as far as progression.

Do you really think I should go 5/3/1 + FSL instead of 5’s PRO + FSL?[/quote]

5s pro + 5x5 fsl looks legit & a solid place to start, just saying that you’ll benefit varying templates throughout your journey to gain 20 lbs. Do a template for a couple cycles and move on.


#8

Isn’t this the third thread on essentially the same subject you’ve started in about a fortnight?

Workout wanting to be a douche, perhaps you would be better served by just picking a program, eating more or less properly and sticking to that for a few months instead of asking what is much the same question multiple times.


#9

Sorry man. Didn’t know there was unwritten rules. It’s funny that the cliche about all beginner lifters is they “can never stick to one program”, and when I’m simply asking questions so I can stay on ONE program for multiple months, you give me shit for it.

If I was in your position, I would be honored to have a newbie asking for your insight. You’re the one that influenced me to BBB, where I then took that to Jim where he made his suggestion.

Also, it’s a forum… I’m not blowing up your personal email. You could actually completely leave this topic alone if you had any control.

It’s a shame that a kid actually wants to train smart and do it right these days. I’ll digress, thanks for your input.


#10

Absolutely. I can definitely see where switching from a 5’s PRO to a 5/3/1 would be needed as progress stalled and overall load was higher. I personally really like his “Breaking Bad” template, that is very similar to the one I’m going to do.


#11

Why don’t you just…

DO WHAT JIM SAYS?

I mean, he did create 531 and it’s variations plus squatted 1,000lbs.

Perspective.


#12

[quote]kingbrady wrote:
Sorry man. Didn’t know there was unwritten rules. It’s funny that the cliche about all beginner lifters is they “can never stick to one program”, and when I’m simply asking questions so I can stay on ONE program for multiple months, you give me shit for it.

If I was in your position, I would be honored to have a newbie asking for your insight. You’re the one that influenced me to BBB, where I then took that to Jim where he made his suggestion.

Also, it’s a forum… I’m not blowing up your personal email. You could actually completely leave this topic alone if you had any control.

It’s a shame that a kid actually wants to train smart and do it right these days. I’ll digress, thanks for your input.

[/quote]

It isn’t about unwritten rules or anything, I was more trying to make the point that you’ve picked yourself a pair of good options. What you need the most now is just to do the work. Either one will, followed consistently, bring you the results you want.

If you’re worried that one is going to be marginally better for you and that picking the one that isn’t absolutely perfect for you will torpedo your results: don’t worry. They’re both good, and the overwhelming odds are that you’re not so unique that it is going to matter too much right now.

So, not trying to damp your enthusiasm and if I can help you, I’ll be glad. Just remember that sometimes that might mean saying something a little less than gentle.

Pick the one that excites you the most. Follow it. You’ll do fine.


#13

[quote]kingbrady wrote:
Jim suggested 5’s PRO + FSL to me on his forum last weekend. Mapping it out over a 6-month span, I’m going to want to pair the main lift and assistance lift together (ex. 5’s PRO’s for Squats and FSL for Squats).

You’re right though, the 5’s PRO with FSL seems like a lot of work for a novice. I don’t know if I’ll be able to recover from that. I definitely feel the FSL is essential though as far as progression.

Do you really think I should go 5/3/1 + FSL instead of 5’s PRO + FSL?[/quote]

He did not recommend anything. You asked a question on 5 Pro’s and he answered. It is not a lot of work for a novice.

And no, I don’t think think you should do one over the other. I gave you an option to do both templates above, but I prefer straight FSL as oppose to 5 Pro’s and FSL IN THE CONTEXT THAT YOU ASKED.

5 Pro’s and FSL by itself is amazing for novices and people returning from a long layoff or injury.

Don’t confuse answers.


#14

I’m also voting for doing both. Just separate them to two six week cycles.

Jim wrote to me couple weeks ago that they usually start every 5/3 - cycle with 5’s PRO + FSL.

So:
6 weeks of 5’s pro + 5x5 fsl
deload
6 weeks of 5/3/1 + fsl

I’m not beginner, but not advanced either and doing currently 5’s PRO + 5X5 FSL and it feels great after doing heavy amrap sets for many months.


#15

I got you man, it’s all good.

You’re right the most important thing is doing that work. Eating well.


#16

I wrote a 6-month progression, and 6 months of 5’s PRO + FSL would be extremely difficult. 5/3/1 after reload makes a lot of sense.