T Nation

Chomsky's solution

Here is Noam Chomsky’s solution to the Iraq thing. (it’s a bit too late now that it’s pretty much over, but still worth reading to see how silly Bush & his crew is) In case you don’t know who Chomsky is (or think he’s just another stupid highschool-dropout celeb), look at his condensed CV here
http://web.mit.edu/linguistics/www/biography/noambio.html

“If we want to get rid of Saddam Hussein, there are easier ways to do it. In fact, there are easier ways by war, much easier ways. A perfectly obvious one-let me point out before I even mention it that this suggestion is totally insane; its only merit is it’s a lot more reasonable than what’s being discussed. So, one possibility is to unleash Iran; we can offer them logistic support, missile & bombing, all from a safe distance-let them do the fighting. That has lots of advantages over what’s being proposed. For one thing, just think about them for a minute, they’ll not only get rid of Saddam, they’ll tear him to shreds & anybody who’s anywhere near him, they’ll eliminate every trace of weapons of mass destruction which really threaten them [some sarcasm here] & furthermore they’ll do it for any successive regime-which the US won’t do. So they’ll make a real contribution to disarmament in the region and in fact they’ll even live up to a paragraph of the famous resolution 687-which is always omitted when it’s reported-namely the article 14 which says that Iraq should be part of general disarmament in the region. That makes sense. And by disarming successive regimes to Saddam, they’ll be a big help there. Another advantage is there’ll be no American casualties, there won’t be any Israeli casualties, there’s no point in shooting off SCUDs @ Israel when its prime enemy is invading, that would be ridiculous. So no casualties, that’s fine… plenty of Iraqi & Iranian casualties, but that can’t possibly be a concern. I mean, the US was, these guys in Washington were supporting massive Iranian & Iraqi casualties in the 80s, they continued through the 90s, probably Saddam would use chemical weapons, but again, that can’t possible be a concern, we not only supported him when he did in the past but continued to aid him in developing more. In fact, help him to continue to develop weapons of mass destruction well after, so that can’t be it. No problems with the UN, we wouldn’t have to go through that nonsense. If anybody bothered to stop the liberation of Iraq, the US could just veto it as usual [the crowd laughs], but it wouldn’t come up anyway. There’s no question that Iranian troops would probably be welcomed in a large part of the country, remember 60-65% of the country is Shiite, not pro-Iranian, but they’re much more likely to be welcoming to Iranian troops than American troops, In fact, in Basra & Karbolla [sp?] they’ll be shouting from the rooftops thanking the liberators & we can all join the Iranian journalists who are writing about the liberation & the noble effort in opening a new era of humanitarian intervention & we can all join in on that. We’re spared the embarassment of pretending our leaders have suddenly gone through a miraculous conversion for which there isn’t a particle of evidence. They’ll be able, much better than we, in introducing democracy in Iraq. The US is going to have a big problem with making sure that the large majority of the population has essentially no voice. If we want to talk about the Kurds, they’ll be in trouble. The US has a horrendous record with regard to Kurds. Most recently in Turkey, where the US was, right through the Clinton administration, some of the owrst atrocities of the 1990s were being carried out in southeastern Turkey where millions of people were driven from their homes, tens of thousands were killed, every barbaric form of torture you can imagine. In the single year 1997 alone, the Clinton administration sent more arms to Turkey than in the entire Cold-War period combined, up until the onset of what is called, for example in the Boston Globe, the counter-terror campaign. Counter terror is what we call “our terrorism.” If you read the Globe this morning, yeah it was this. Save the Kurds? That’s not very substantial… & so on, what’s that matter with that? & why isn’t it being discussed? Notice it isn’t being discussed & there’s a very good reason for it, it’s crazy. It’s totally crazy, but it’s just a lot more reasonable than what is being proposed. Think it through in your spare time, there’s only one flaw in this proposal. The flaw is: it’s not going to leave the US in control of Iraqi oil, and it’s not going to solve the domestic political problems of the reactionary right-wing oligarchy. Other than that, I don’t see any flaws in it.”

Now, I’ll tell you how you’ll respond because you?re so predictable:
BostonBarrister:“That oil stuff is just a conspiracy theory, right up there with ghosts & the world being run by shape-shifting lizards from the 12th Planet”
AvoidsRoids:“Go wait @ the bus stop for that girl you pathetic mouse”
Cupcake, CMG & others from Calgary: ?I?m embarrassed to be Canadian?
everyone else:“Michael Moore AND NOW Noam Chomsky (& Rick Mercer too if he was American) should be sent to jail because they’re just so unpatriotic”

Say, people’s reactions to you are to be expected for several reasons.

  1. You’ve never posted an original thought on this board. All you do is regurgitate things you read. See the above post for a great example.

  2. You can’t defend the things you regurgitate. Hell, you don’t even try because you can’t. I respect the right of people to disagree with me IF they can defend their position with reasoning and facts. You can’t and never will.

  3. You’re so blatantly anti-American it’s not even funny. It’s actually quite sickening.

  4. You act like a 12 year old girl constantly. The US sucks, the war sucks, conservatives suck, the US sucks, the US sucks. Grow up, child.

Ok, now it’s my turn to guess your response to this. Let’s see. You’ll probably not respond to this at all, and if you do, it’ll be some nonsensical tirade against Americans. The hypocrisy of your post is stunning.

Say I am a little upset you didn’t put me on your predict the post list. I said it once and I will Say it again, Noam Chompsky being quoted is a sign of the apolocolypse, it will probably be in SI’s next issue.

The problem Noam via Say is that supporting Iran is unethical. Their oppresive regime is only slightly more humane than Iraq's, call me crazy but asking for the help of a government that brutally opresses women, is a big proponent of religous persecution, and refers to America as "the great Satan" is not a great solution. Even from a political standpoint If this occured then those anti-war hippies could just say "hey they don't really care about human rights violations cause they are siding with Iran." Which is probably what that elitist left winged Chompsky wants.
  Furthermore Jean David-Levitte the French Ambassador spoke the other day at my school (Johns Hopkins) and offered no truely viable reasons for his country's position. It was very pathetic, and he was grilled constantly. France's position comes from a European inferiority complex and Charauc is just merely trying to make a name for himself on the world stage.  Maybe he can make Chompsky his secretary of defense and they can get us to go get vietnam back for them.
  1. I post original stuff all the time
  2. I defend the stuff all the time too
  3. I’m not anti-American. I’m anti-closed-mindedness, anti-arrogance (which seems to be lots of Americans though) & anti-US-gov’t, but I don’t really have a problem with the USA. Has anyone heard me say 'YEAH BABY NUKE FUCKIN WASHINGTON (after rescuing Bill Reid’s The Spirit of Haida Gwaii from the Canadian Embassy or course) + I don’t think you know what the word ‘blatantly’ means
  4. I don’t act like a 12-yr-old girl. A 12-yr-old girl would lose her cool get into personal attacks, etc.

Excellent. Another theoretical wonder-boy. Since when does theoretical knowledge change the world? Most often than not, never. You can post 1 million theories, yet you have only one reality where the rubber meets the road. I’ll follow the US Military way-of-process 1 million time before following academics. For one thing, military does not speculate on too abstract is’s, ought to’s, woulda’s and shoulda’s…they work on can be APPLIED, what’s REAL, and have RESULTS-oriented training and evaluations. Don’t forget contigency plans too. Which can probably not be said for ‘one direction, one dimension’ papers. Military follow the ‘meritocracy’ structure. You don’t get to have high command and have a saying on other’s lives by accident - you have to prove that you have what it takes to be up there in the top decidors.

As for the academics…we’ll…paper doesn’t fight back, paper can’t be leaded, paper won’t fight a war for you.

Say, do yourself a favor and read Dick Marcinko’s business leadership Books. Knock some stone-cold hard reality in your thinking processes and stop worshipping academics, unless that’s your aim in life. Should the latter be the case, then I’ll stop answering to you, because it will be clear we don’t live on the same planet.

I just think even uttering Michael Moore’s name in the same sentence as Noam Chomsky is incorrect.

I think Chomsky thought up a way of getting rid of Saddam Hussein, not whether Iran is a brutal regime. Earlier in the discussion that this came from he offers to name all the brutal regimes of the world from A to Z, and that this is simply an alternative to what just happened (this discussion took place either just before or just after the Iraq ataq started). He says that the world would be a better place if Saddam was removed from power, but he also said the same thing about the Bush regime. & if they really want to stop terrorist acts against the USA, the USA shouldn’t take part in terrorism.

Say - I have refrained from responding to your many inane posts thus far, but I cannot “walk by” this one. I have one question - Are you out of your mind? First, before you even entertain a suggestion like letting Iran take care of business (even if it isn’t your own), you need to understand who/what you would effectively be supporting. Suffice it to say that supporting Iran or encouraging Iran to become a more powerful force in that region is neither in the best interests of the U.S. nor is it in the best interests of Canada (or much of the rest of the world, for that matter). Second, what is the point of this post at this stage of the game. The U.S. has conducted a very successful campaign in an amount of time that is simply beyond comprehension. Is the conflict over - No. Is it close - yes. Has there been an incredible amount of care to preserve innocent life and maintain the infrastructure - yes. Did the U.S. have to use this amount of care – no, but it was definitely politically prudent. I could go on, but I really do not understand your continued desire to post such inanities, particularly at a time when they are even more irrelevant that they were before.

“Go wait @ the bus stop for that girl you pathetic mouse.”

Say, my man, you are a psychic mouse as well.

I am actually getting quite fond of you as you give me something to do on rainy days like today. Now I am primed to finish my last set of breathing 1200 pound squats!

Uuuh, I’d thought we all agreed that Say is a complete and utter ________ (fill in with appropriate term, mine is jackass - feel free to use it) and we weren’t going to be wasting precious forum space on him and his idiocy? Maybe I didn’t get the memo which clearly renounced this. Damn those TSP reports…

Say,

If you say the US takes part in terrorist activities now (ie. targets civilians in an attempt to intimidate or push their political views on others) you are uninformed, or just a pathetic liar.

Say, quick question - how old are you? I am seriously asking you this, not as a joke or anything but just out of curiosity.
Maybe the rest of the forum will understand your point of view if you age identifies you with your thinking process. I know you mentioned college but you are in college yet?
DocT, Maverick, Patrica and others, I agree with you on this one. Say says Americans are close-minded - does he think he is open-minded and not ignorant?

“I post original stuff all the time”

Right…like cutting and pasting articles, correct?

“I defend the stuff all the time too”

No, usually you incite people with something provocative and sit back and watch the aftermath. You’re generally not even involved in the discussion once you start something.

“I’m not anti-American. I’m anti-closed-mindedness, anti-arrogance (which seems to be lots of Americans though) & anti-US-gov’t, but I don’t really have a problem with the USA. Has anyone heard me say 'YEAH BABY NUKE FUCKIN WASHINGTON (after rescuing Bill Reid’s The Spirit of Haida Gwaii from the Canadian Embassy or course) + I don’t think you know what the word ‘blatantly’ means”

You sure coulda fooled myself and many others that you’re not “anti-American.” Every friggin post you make here is attacking my country in some sort of way. It’s fine to be proud of your country, but it’s not an excuse to attack mine constantly. Don’t like us? Who cares? I’m not a particular fan of Mongolians, but you don’t see me constantly posting about a country that I DON’T EVEN LIVE IN. And, yes, I’m quite well aware of what the word “blatantly” means. Please take a poll of people around here who read your inane drivel and see if you’re considered “blatantly anti-American.” If you don’t already know what the results of that would be, I do truly feel sorry for you.

“I don’t act like a 12-yr-old girl. A 12-yr-old girl would lose her cool get into personal attacks, etc.”

You got me on that one. You only think and reason like a 12 year old. My apologies.

Is this “Say” the same guy that used to be called “Drax”? Just curious…

I’m going to post this again because Say didn’t answer my question in another post. He dodged it like he does with everything else.

Have you ever been to the United States or visited here for a while? You talk all this shit about us but have you ever experienced what you are talking about. You need to stop reading those same bullshit anti-american websites and form your own opinions based on experiences.

Say, I was prepared to read your post and give you a chance until I scrolled down and saw your comment about people from Calgary. Well, I’m from Calgary and I don’t appreciate your comments. From now on I am not going to read anything that has your name attached to it. If you ever pass through Calgary, let me know and I’ll give you a welcome you’ll never forget.

Don’t have time to read this yet, but thanks for putting this up, Say.

Chomsky’s opinion on something like this, whether you agree with him or not, is valuable.

I must say, though, that one of the biggest problems I have with liberal thinkers (I don’t consider myself anti-liberal, however), is that their ‘solutions’ seem largely removed from reality.

Too much time spent in the halls of acadamia tends to remove one from “real life”, as it were.

Anyway… I look forward to reading this. When I actually do read it, I’ll post something worthwhile! :slight_smile:

I didn’t read what was originally posted because Say is a pussy. Ever hook up with that girl on the bus? Or was that someone else if it was my bad, but otherwise you’re still a pussy.

Hello, my name is Nathan Say. I am 22 years old & am a 3rd-year math student @ the University of Victoria, BC, Canada. (www.uvic.ca) My interests include reading, lifting (not ‘pumping up’ or ‘working out’), doing lots math homework because I want to go to an excellent world-class CANADIAN grad school, reading & posting on some of my favorite internet forums. Somewhat unrelated to this is my interest in travel. My last trip took me to London England, where I met up with my brother who is living there whie doing the GAP program. For my last vacation, however, I went to see The Who and the Gorge in George, Washington State. They were very good. Along the way there, though, we stopped in Ellensberg & Yakima, where we shopped at various stores such as Old Navy and Borders, stores owned and operated by heartless multinational corporatioins who think they are in the personal/service industry when their head office with all the decision makers is 100s of miles away & perhaps the decision makers have never set foot in the stores. It was good to get home though, where we have many more businesses are locally owned & operated. I’m much more in favour of that idea because I, as a customer, feel more important. I also like it when people on my forums attack the substance of what I post, & not me personally. When they do that, they just seem like they don’t have anything better to say.

Don’t try to argue with a fool. He’ll just drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.