T Nation

Cholesterol Lowering Agents On Cycle

I have heard people say that natural cholesterol agents like plant sterols and stanols and red yeast rice can inhibit gains while on cycle. Any merit to these claims? By what mechanism would this be?

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
I have heard people say that natural cholesterol agents like plant sterols and stanols and red yeast rice can inhibit gains while on cycle. Any merit to these claims? By what mechanism would this be?[/quote]

Yeah, I’m interested in this as I need to take an unusually high dose of Adex when on, and have been concerned to how much of a negative this will be on lipid values from a 10 weeker.

              Hope you get some good answers JS.

                   TBN

IMO you’re better off raising your HDL and forgetting about your total while on cycle. One wat you can do that is obviously fish oil and fiber. That’s my method anyway.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I basically do what DB mentions, and consume lots of fish and olive oil to boost HDL.

I know it’s not quite what you are asking about, but I thought I would share my ‘atherosclerosis counter terrorism plan’.

Basically I attack the problem on three levels.

Consume a high HDL/ low LDL diet. HDL is thought to assist in the return of LDL to the liver and hence prevent fatty streaks on artery walls.

Take high ORAC anti-oxidants, to prevent oxidation of LDL/VLDL which it what builds up under the surface of the arteries and attracts macrophages, turning them into foam cells, which form the atherosclerotic plaque as well as encouraging sclerosis of the arteries.

Consume lots of fish oil and Q10, to maintain artery wall cellular health and flexibility.

Oh yeh, and consume lots of soluble fibre, to ‘scrub’ the arteries clean.

So, four methods of attack then, lol, along with cardio and general conditioning, should keep that bitch at bay, even with the use of anabolics.

Bushy[/quote]

                 Excellent!

Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely would agree on the fish oil and CoQ10. What exactly would be a low LDL diet? Just avoiding most saturated fat and cholesterol while on cycle? Still interested in thoughts as to whether red yeast rice and some plant sterols/stanols would be a bad thing. I’d imagine it’s less of an issue on a cutting cycle when the goal is to maintain or add a small amount of mass rather than have big gains in any case.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely would agree on the fish oil and CoQ10. What exactly would be a low LDL diet? Just avoiding most saturated fat and cholesterol while on cycle? Still interested in thoughts as to whether red yeast rice and some plant sterols/stanols would be a bad thing. I’d imagine it’s less of an issue on a cutting cycle when the goal is to maintain or add a small amount of mass rather than have big gains in any case. [/quote]

I could be wrong about this, you’ll have to do the research and double check, but I think “plant sterols” is another word for “phyto-estrogens.”

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely would agree on the fish oil and CoQ10. What exactly would be a low LDL diet? Just avoiding most saturated fat and cholesterol while on cycle? Still interested in thoughts as to whether red yeast rice and some plant sterols/stanols would be a bad thing. I’d imagine it’s less of an issue on a cutting cycle when the goal is to maintain or add a small amount of mass rather than have big gains in any case. [/quote]

Based on bloodwork, I’d say you guys have nicely laid out a “low LDL” diet: fish oil, raw nuts and seeds, plenty of vegs, fruits, beans, and can’t forget cacao and oats and egg yolks (I’m referring to the yellow part of the egg here)

I also think BBB’s “counterterrorism strategy” should be STICKIED and not just for this forum, but for any general health forum period.

[quote]chillain wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely would agree on the fish oil and CoQ10. What exactly would be a low LDL diet? Just avoiding most saturated fat and cholesterol while on cycle? Still interested in thoughts as to whether red yeast rice and some plant sterols/stanols would be a bad thing. I’d imagine it’s less of an issue on a cutting cycle when the goal is to maintain or add a small amount of mass rather than have big gains in any case.

Based on bloodwork, I’d say you guys have nicely laid out a “low LDL” diet: fish oil, raw nuts and seeds, plenty of vegs, fruits, beans, and can’t forget cacao and oats and egg yolks (I’m referring to the yellow part of the egg here)

I also think BBB’s “counterterrorism strategy” should be STICKIED and not just for this forum, but for any general health forum period.

[/quote]

      I totally agree Chillz,

It is a beautiful piece of advice on supplementing and diet for many health benefits in general, and is quite awesome really.

            Second the vote for BBB's STICKY!

[quote]InTheZone wrote:
chillain wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely would agree on the fish oil and CoQ10. What exactly would be a low LDL diet? Just avoiding most saturated fat and cholesterol while on cycle? Still interested in thoughts as to whether red yeast rice and some plant sterols/stanols would be a bad thing. I’d imagine it’s less of an issue on a cutting cycle when the goal is to maintain or add a small amount of mass rather than have big gains in any case.

Based on bloodwork, I’d say you guys have nicely laid out a “low LDL” diet: fish oil, raw nuts and seeds, plenty of vegs, fruits, beans, and can’t forget cacao and oats and egg yolks (I’m referring to the yellow part of the egg here)

I also think BBB’s “counterterrorism strategy” should be STICKIED and not just for this forum, but for any general health forum period.

      I totally agree Chillz,

It is a beautiful piece of advice on supplementing and diet for many health benefits in general, and is quite awesome really.

            Second the vote for BBB's STICKY!

                  [/quote]

Thirded.

[quote]Diana Bolann wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
Thanks for the input everyone! Definitely would agree on the fish oil and CoQ10. What exactly would be a low LDL diet? Just avoiding most saturated fat and cholesterol while on cycle? Still interested in thoughts as to whether red yeast rice and some plant sterols/stanols would be a bad thing. I’d imagine it’s less of an issue on a cutting cycle when the goal is to maintain or add a small amount of mass rather than have big gains in any case.

I could be wrong about this, you’ll have to do the research and double check, but I think “plant sterols” is another word for “phyto-estrogens.” [/quote]

Hmmm…I’ll have to look into that

I used to take the prescription lipitor at 10mg. I took it for 2-3 years. I did two cycles while on the lipitor, needless to say my cholestrol numbers was not effected by the gear arguably because of the lipitor. I stopped lipitor a couple years ago for various reasons. Since then I have done what many above have said. Red Yeast Rice, Coq10, fish and flax the whole nine yards. Take the following data for what its worth. Pre-Lipitor and pre-gear my numbers were around 285. About 40HDL and over 175LDL; not good so they put me on lipitor. Lowest numbers on lipitor 170. HDL 53, LDL 100. Needless to say this is quite good.

I never took a cholestrol test while I was on cycle. I have been off lipitor since 2006. My spring cycle last year I did take a cholestrol test on cycle. Numbers were 198. HDL 49, LDL 122. My last cholestrol test was in September 199, HDL 50 LDL 126. So my numbers on cycle and months after are/were virtually the same. The natural methods are nearly as good as the lipitor. Admittedly not as good but no sides either.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
I used to take the prescription lipitor at 10mg. I took it for 2-3 years. I did two cycles while on the lipitor, needless to say my cholestrol numbers was not effected by the gear arguably because of the lipitor. I stopped lipitor a couple years ago for various reasons. Since then I have done what many above have said. Red Yeast Rice, Coq10, fish and flax the whole nine yards. Take the following data for what its worth. Pre-Lipitor and pre-gear my numbers were around 285. About 40HDL and over 175LDL; not good so they put me on lipitor. Lowest numbers on lipitor 170. HDL 53, LDL 100. Needless to say this is quite good. I never took a cholestrol test while I was on cycle. I have been off lipitor since 2006. My spring cycle last year I did take a cholestrol test on cycle. Numbers were 198. HDL 49, LDL 122. My last cholestrol test was in September 199, HDL 50 LDL 126. So my numbers on cycle and months after are/were virtually the same. The natural methods are nearly as good as the lipitor. Admittedly not as good but no sides either.[/quote]

Thanks Sapasian. Well, I’m not going to worry about Red Yeast on cycle then. You didn’t feel it hurt your cycle in any way, though?

No, not at all. I know I won’t be able to find the article but somewhere last year I read how bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman even I want to say were taking lipitor to enhance their bodies/gains. I almost want to say it was on meso-rx but I really can’t remember. My gains were arguably better on the natural stuff versus the lipitor; although equally true my dosages were higher then too.

[quote]sapasion wrote:
No, not at all. I know I won’t be able to find the article but somewhere last year I read how bodybuilders like Ronnie Coleman even I want to say were taking lipitor to enhance their bodies/gains. I almost want to say it was on meso-rx but I really can’t remember. My gains were arguably better on the natural stuff versus the lipitor; although equally true my dosages were higher then too.[/quote]

Great. Thanks. That’s some interesting stuff there, too. I wonder at the mechanism by which lipitor would enhance gains.

My friend’s step dad is on some cholesterol drugs and he had to drop out of his corporate baseball league because it messes his joints up so bad. He had to stop running and everything.

I was on lipitor for 2 years stopped for a few months and re-started when I re-started that was when I had all the negative sides like leg and low back cramps and pain. Not to mention general soreness not from lifting either. So I stopped too. It was weird because the first 2 years I had nothing.

Are those common sides? In any case, I’d imagine that they really don’t apply to non-prescription drugs only used on-cycle.

If you mean my sides, yes. Cramps and muscle pains were the worst, especially for people in our field. Its the main reason I quit it