T Nation

Chocolate Milk-Post Workout!

I’m a university student and I don’t have much money but recently I’ve decided to dial in my nutrition. My biggest concern post workout nutrition. I cannot afford supplements i.e. Surge or do I have the means to get them i.e. credit card to buy online, what is my best bet otherwise. Is chocolate milk, as mentioned a few times on this site, a good alternative or not? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Yeah, fat free, or low fat chocolate milk is the next best thing.

Just be sure to get in a good post-workout meal also.

On a side note-- if you have a bank account, you can get a debit/check card that allows you to use it with a credit function, ie internet purchases. This requires no prior credit history.

Canuck
We meet again! Chocolate milk is fine for after workout supplementation. So is a turkey sand. possibly on white instead of whole wheat. This is your time to ingest processed carbs and some protein. Just as importantly have some carbs–slow burners-and some protein 60-90 minutes before your workout so it is available to the muscles as you work. Supps are great, but except for maybe a good multi, let your workouts and goals decide what is best for you. If you’re really going to throw it in high gear and mass is your goal then you may want to consider L-Glut, creatine, and even Surge to get you going. Keep eating–keep liftin–good luck.

I’m not at all questioning your ability to purchase quality supplements. However, is there something that you are buying currently that you might be able to do without in order to afford Surge & Grow!?

If gaining muscle weight is important to you, then prioritize your expenditures so that you can afford good supplements.

For example, you might be spending money on alcohol (beer, wine etc), junk food (McDonalds etc), or any number things that are actually somewhat counter productive. If you can use that money to purchase Grow! you will not only be eliminating something that could be hurting your training, but adding something that would help you a great deal!

Sure, you can go it with just milk. I did it for a while, but it’s just easier and far more efficient with the proper supplementation.

Again, only you know your lifestyle, I’m just trying to help.

Good Luck,

Zeb

[quote]ZEB wrote:

For example, you might be spending money on alcohol (beer, wine etc), junk food (McDonalds etc), or any number things that are actually somewhat counter productive.
Zeb[/quote]

Depends, i mean booze is terrible for you. but mcdonalds, although unhealthy, has a ton of calories, and some protein. ive eaten fast food once in a while when trying to add weight. i have a very fast metabolism. also, the food tastes so damn good. once a week isnt terrible when you are bulking especially if you are the type to gain fat very slowly.
plus it is cheap and can be done socially with all your fat friends :slight_smile:

i know this is blasphemy on a T-Nation forum, so dont kill me for this…

You can buy glucose and maltodextrin, which are the carbohydrate component of Surge, in bulk for $1.00-1.50 per pound. Mix this with a some bulk whey and you’re looking at a very nice budget PWO drink. This will almost certainly be cheaper than chocolate milk.

Nick

I dont see any way to rationalize eating mcdonalds. The food, although high in calories, doesn’t really offer any nutritional benefits. If you have a fast metabolism and don’t mind eating high-calorie “junk” foods, I can think of many options better than mcdonalds.

Sasquatch, ZEB and others thanks for the responses guys. I’m going to try the chocolate milk for a while and see how it goes. My training is primarily for sports (rugby) so I’m not worried about beeing huge I just want to be able to play and enjoy the sports I love at a competetive level.

My budget is pretty efficient I don’t waste too much money. Just spend enough to maintain a decent uni social life, definately not wasting money on crap food.

With regards to the milk? What’s the formula for calories I need after working out? Should I use it for cardio recovery as well? How long can the milk be out of the fridge and then safely consumed?

My gym is a 10 minute walk away. So by the time I get home it’s usually half an hour after I last lifted bc I shower etc. - more if I do cardio. I’d like to be able to consume the milk at the gym can milk be left out for the possibly two hours from the time I leave until the time I’m done my workout or is it okay to wait the half an hour before I get home.

thanks in advance again.

Canuck
I don’t know of any specific formula except that you should consume a 2or3:1 carb to protein ratio to enhance recovery. 1-2 cups after a good workout should suffice[depending on your goals-ie. gain,lose,or maintain weight.] Same is ok for cardio recovery, just make sure you replace lost fluids with plenty of water. I would think that 2 hours out of the fridge is to much, but go get yourself insulated cup or drop a few ice cubes in the milk and you should be fine. A half hour window to consume calories after your workout is well within the accepted time frame. Most would say you have that"magic window"of about an hour to consume your recovery meal. Try to consume something more substantive in one or two hours after your milk to continue the recovery process. Keep working.

Hey, where’s the birds calling “Cheap, cheap!”
I guess Zeb just likes me more . . .

[quote]ZEB wrote:
I’m not at all questioning your ability to purchase quality supplements. However, is there something that you are buying currently that you might be able to do without in order to afford Surge & Grow!?

If gaining muscle weight is important to you, then prioritize your expenditures so that you can afford good supplements.

For example, you might be spending money on alcohol (beer, wine etc), junk food (McDonalds etc), or any number things that are actually somewhat counter productive. If you can use that money to purchase Grow! you will not only be eliminating something that could be hurting your training, but adding something that would help you a great deal!

Sure, you can go it with just milk. I did it for a while, but it’s just easier and far more efficient with the proper supplementation.

Again, only you know your lifestyle, I’m just trying to help.

Good Luck,

Zeb[/quote]

Shipping Grow! to Canada is a far different cost to a Canadian than shipping Grow! across the US to an American. I’m sure it will cost effectively double, and that’s a tall order for a student.

[quote]CrazyCanuck wrote:
I cannot afford supplements i.e. Surge[/quote]

Well, it is pretty expensive. Here in Canada, the cheapest I’ve found it is 45$. At 10 servings, it comes out to 4.50$ a serving. If I follow the label’s recommendation for my weight, I’d get about little over 6 servings… at 7.50$ a shot.

But basically, a serving of Surge appears to be 45g of sugar (glucose) with 25g of whey protein and 4g of maltodextrin (the remaining 4g of carbs once the glucose is accounted for). See the “Other ingredients” on the label.

You can buy some good quality whey protein and a tub of carb powder for a lot less money. You won’t get the magical placebo compound, but you’ll probably get 95% of the effect for 10-20% of the cost.

On what NateN and ZEB wrote:

He took my advice well…some others feel a need to argue with me…:wink:

“Placebo compound”? pookie, did you really just write that on a site that’s free for you, in part because of that supplement? The science of Surge has been well documented and keeps getting better all of the time. You’re just not going to get the same effects from store bought whey protein, which has been discussed in prior articles. If you have contradictory evidence, I’d love to discuss with you.

The price is pretty crazy for you, but then again Biotest has always been open about the idea of making your own.

Cheers

[quote]pookie wrote:

Well, it is pretty expensive. Here in Canada, the cheapest I’ve found it is 45$. At 10 servings, it comes out to 4.50$ a serving. If I follow the label’s recommendation for my weight, I’d get about little over 6 servings… at 7.50$ a shot.
You can buy some good quality whey protein and a tub of carb powder for a lot less money. You won’t get the magical placebo compound, but you’ll probably get 95% of the effect for 10-20% of the cost.[/quote]

[quote]David Barr wrote:
“Placebo compound”? pookie, did you really just write that on a site that’s free for you, in part because of that supplement?[/quote]

Well, I wasn’t sure that post would survive moderation, so kudos on that. I hope it didn’t get thru because of some automated system.

MOD NOTE: No, I allowed it through.

[quote]
The science of Surge has been well documented and keeps getting better all of the time.[/quote]

By independent third parties using double-blind studies? With repeatable results?

I don’t doubt that Surge is a good quality product. I’m simply unconvinced about it being that much superior to a “roll your own” preparation. I did leave you 5% wiggle room. :slight_smile:

[quote]
You’re just not going to get the same effects from store bought whey protein, which has been discussed in prior articles.[/quote]

Well, I’ll take that with a healthy dose of skepticism and a few grains of salt.

Surge is mostly carbs anyway, it lists 25g of protein. I take in another 350g a day of protein; you really want me to believe that those 25g of “magic” whey hydrolysate will make me grow like a cycle of Deca?

Even if those 25g were all converted to 100% new muscle, it would come out to about 8.5 pounds of muscle a year (assuming a 3-days a week workout plan), at a cost (to me) of 138$ a pound of muscle…

I’ve been reading magazines and articles and web sites on training for many years. Nowadays, just about every mainstream magazine (and a few websites) are a mouthpiece for a supplement company; and of course they all claim to have the best supplements and have their own studies to back them. I like this site and don’t want to knock any of you, but the training supplements industry has a lot in common with the high-end audio industry. Sometimes, fantasy takes over reality.

I don’t have the independent studies either, sorry.

Exactly. At that price, Surge would have to be “steroids with no side effects” for it to be worth my while. So for now I’ll stick with my “home recipe” PWO drink.

If you’re willing to supply me with a free 6 weeks supply of Surge, I’ll give it an honest try and report back if I see better results than with my current concoction. It’s quite possible that Surge is better (I certainly hope so) but it’s the “how much better” that has me unconvinced.

Surge is worth it if you can afford it. Really. Branch Chain Amino Acids, taken pre-workout or during the workout, have a very tangible, positive effect on recovery that I just haven’t been able to duplicate with run-of-the-mill food.

But if you can’t afford Surge, just use skim milk and honey to get high-BV protein and a good insulin spike. Have some cheap, non-junk-food cereal with the meal to bring the macronutrient ratios up to 2 carbs: 1 protein.

[quote]
MOD NOTE: No, I allowed it through.[/quote]

Thanks for clearing that up. And again, kudos for not stomping on dissenting opinion.

While I don’t really want to argue with anyone, and this has probably been mentioned by Cy, Berardi, or someone before, I think it is important to understand that all protein and carbs are not quite the same. This is especially true in a post-workout situation.

Surge is a unique product in that it allows one access to nutrients at a speed that could othewise not be achieved outside of IV administration. I don’t think it is magical, but I think it deserves a bit more respect as a food product than to give it a 5% effectiveness variance from chocolate milk. The beneift of Surge, in my feeble mind, is that it allows a person to crush the negative hormonal response that occurs after thirty-or-so minutes of training.

I was making home-brew concoctions of high-GI, hydrolysate-based PWO drinks well before the advent of Surge. This isn’t just some scrap of information that Biotest has thrown to me, and I am holding it sacred. The biochemical response that a person induces by training, while possessing qualities to induce hypertrophy and strength, also entails negative, catabolic signaling. This effect can be somewhat quashed by consuming an appropriate amount of nutrients in a quick enough time frame.

The problem with things like milk is that they require a pretty hefty digestive response. Milk, for example, requires that the carbohydrates be cleaved by the lactase enzyme, which is quite lacking in many individuals. This slows the release of glucose into the bloodstream significantly. D-glucose does not require this step. Secondly, the protein complex in milk requires treatment by a series of proteolytic enzymes such that free amino acids may be released into the bloodstream. Aside from that, many of the proteins in milk are receptive to curdling by contact with acid, much like micellar casein. This slows the process even more. Hydrolyzed protein does not induce these delays, at least not if the drink is buffered properly.

Briefly stated, I just think that products like Surge (or even a home-brew of glucose/malto/hydro) deserves a little bit more credit than to be placed as identical with chocolate milk, aside from a 5% placebo effect. There is simply no rationale behind a claim like this, and when the mechanisms behind it are put into perspective, it seems quite untrue.

Once more, I don’t want to upset anyone, as I know some guys around here can be a bit thin-skinned. I’m just trying to bring another opinion to the table.

Late.

~Terumo

Actually, I only started arguing with you AFTER you posted that. It’s understandable you’d forget . . . you’re old. hehehehehehe

[quote]ZEB wrote:
On what NateN and ZEB wrote:

He took my advice well…some others feel a need to argue with me…;)[/quote]

[quote]Terumo wrote:
Briefly stated, I just think that products like Surge (or even a home-brew of glucose/malto/hydro) deserves a little bit more credit than to be placed as identical with chocolate milk, aside from a 5% placebo effect. There is simply no rationale behind a claim like this, and when the mechanisms behind it are put into perspective, it seems quite untrue.

Once more, I don’t want to upset anyone, as I know some guys around here can be a bit thin-skinned. I’m just trying to bring another opinion to the table.

Late.

~Terumo[/quote]

Berardi himself said that chocolate milk is a decent alternative to Surge. Of course Surge is far superior to any other PWO nutrition IMO, but If you can’t afford Surge the cho-milk is better than nothing.

I know that if given a choice, I will choose Surge, but I would drink chocolate milk before i would spend the time to mix my own blend that tastes like butt-cheese.