T Nation

China/US Relations


Any thoughts on China?


I thought I could make a jap anus relations ala SNL jeopardy skit



They are the future.

Learn Mandarin.


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I do not really think that they are interested in making us play by their book, which would be nice for a change.


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Yep. I pray things open up more over there. But I'm not too hopeful.


I think I can.

We are not part of the Middle Kingdom, I doubt that they seriously care who does what among the barbarians.

They are not American, their arrogance plays out completely differently and is, quite possibly more bearable.

For Europe especially, because we are only 1/3 to 1/2 barbarians.


You really are on a roll with your ignorance. If you want to see just how barbaric China is look at what they have done to Tibet. Or look at their client state North Korea, which is home to the worlds largest, most brutal, concentration camps.

What they are doing in Africa is not good either. China is dangerous and it is getting worse.



Compared to what?

And, so what if they prefer their client states primitive?


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They are saints compare to the US.


A book I may need to read, and one from which orion would benefit:

"...But the authors were right to lead with 50 pages itemizing in grizzly detail Chinese human rights abuses -- for the profound reason that after reading those first 50 pages, the reader will be impassioned to resist Chinese domination not only on behalf of American interests, but also for the sake of humanity.

Today, many people think America is in decline and mentally acquiesce to the thought that the rise of China is inevitable. Those 50 pages will stiffen your resolve to be part of the struggle to never let such a malignancy spread to the rest of the world -- let alone to America...

In an astounding narrative, Decker and Triplett have refuted the growing authoritarian temptation expressed for too many elite people around the world by Thomas Friedman, the senior New York Times foreign-policy columnist who wrote recently: "One-party autocracy certainly has its drawbacks. But when it is led by a reasonably enlightened group of people, as China is today, it can also have great advantages. That one party can just impose the politically difficult but critically important policies needed to move a society forward in the 21st century."

The authors do not mention Friedman. In those first 50 pages, they focus their compelling narrative on a strictly factual expose of the moral horror being brought down on the Chinese people by their ever-more-powerful Chinese leadership.

The authors carefully delineate the reversal in the last decade of the previous modest Chinese movement toward rule of law and a small hint at decency. It had been the hope of everyone from Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger onward that as China came into the world and embraced capitalism it would become "a modern, progressive society that (would) eventually bring the communist state in line with the rest of the civilized world." That was the moral foundation for "engaging" with China. It was also a convenient rationalization for trying to make a fortune in the vast Chinese market.

But, grimly, the authors explicate the sad fact that the engagement was a false dawn. In the last decade, it has gotten worse and worse as the Chinese leadership has now consolidated its power. Oligarchic "princelings"-- the 200 to 300 descendants of the founders of the Communist Party -- have gained a stranglehold on both the business and government of China. They are using the incomprehensibly vast power that comes with that total control to buy off the business class, exploit the working class and peasants, and prepare China to replace America as the world's dominant nation.

Once you have read the first searing 50 pages of this book, the hope that China is becoming a "decent," liberal society is no longer morally available to you. I mention Friedman because of his claim that Chinese leaders are a "reasonably enlightened group of people." The authors' narrative shows Friedman's words to be not merely fatuous, but uniquely immoral."


You really want to go there? Okay. It is well known in Asia and other parts of the world that on a regular basis the Chinese government will pick a region where it is going to institute a crack down on crime by executing a lot of people. There are travel agencies in Hong Kong and elsewhere in Asia that specialize in taking advantage of the Chinese execution season because the Chinese sell the organs from the people they execute.

They take organs from people who may or may not be completely dead. This is a level of barbarity that compares with one of your people's most famous physicians, Joseph Mengele. So I'm sure it doesn't register in your Austrian brain as being barbaric, but it is.

It is going to be a serious problem for the world when China is the most powerful country if it doesn't reform it's human rights abuses.



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See, the Chinese have no messianic mission.

They never had.

They are Chinese, what more could they be?

They never showed any inclination of remodeling the world in their image, whereas the US has started quite a few crusades to do exactly that.

Granted, one could interpret some excursions into Korea or Vietnam as such, but that could also be interpreted as keeping you own backyard clean.



They are not very nice to their population, but they never were.

What would bother me more is if they showed any sign of projecting military power beyond their own backyard.

They dont.



China has sent out a few warnings to us aussies that we may be caught in a cross fire if we allow you yanks to build a base in aus.


Yeah well, you might.