[quote]rangertab75 wrote:
We have plenty of bullets for those motherfuckers. RLTW
rangertab75[/quote]
It’s just some small dicked Chinese general making outrageous comments, the title of the article is totally misleading. Good work with the faulty news there…
[quote]rsg wrote:
Bit of a stern comment from the Chinese - wouldn’t expect that.
Either way I personally believe Bush should keep out of it - none of his business.
Oh and he’s an idiot.[/quote]
None of our business and keep out of it?
(pause to compose myself)
Let me try to break this down for you. China is employing the same bullshit reasoning that Saddam used to invade Kuwait. Some spurious old claim that the country is really theirs. Reunification with the motherland, blablablablblablabla.
And yes we have treaties that would bring us to the defense of taiwan should China get squirly. Sounds like that would be directly our business. An openly hostile communist China wanting to usurp the liberty of a free Taiwan which happens to be one of our allies is again, directly our business.
Oh, and you’re a douchebag.
[quote]Grork wrote:
Vroom, I hope that post was sarcastic. When someone threatens to nuke 100s of your cities you don’t need diplomacy you need to drop another 100 billion in missle defense.[/quote]
Didn’t the russians test a jet-propelled final-stage rocket a few years back? As in the kind that would make the planned missle defense system useless? I am not a rocket scientist, and I really don’t know much about this? Can anyone clarify this point?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050721/ap_on_bi_ge/china_currency
China Cuts Currency Link to U.S. Dollar
By STEPHANIE HOO, Associated Press Writer 1 minute ago
After months of lobbying by its trading partners, China on Thursday cut its currency’s link to the U.S. dollar and raised its value by about 2 percent in a move that could make Chinese exports more expensive and make foreign assets cheaper for China to buy.
The government’s increase of the state-set exchange rate of the yuan could give a respite to foreign companies that are trying to compete with an avalanche of low-cost Chinese goods.
But Chinese companies also could get a break as prices of imported oil and other raw materials fall. And a stronger currency could prompt more takeover bids by China like those launched recently for U.S. oil company Unocal Corp. and appliance maker Maytag Corp.
The U.S. government welcomed the move but said it would closely watch the changes. The small increase in the yuan’s value isn’t likely to be enough on its own to satisfy trading partners who have said Chinese exporters had an unfair price advantage because the currency was undervalued by up to 40 percent.
But by dropping the U.S. dollar link and switching to a more flexible system based on a basket of foreign currencies, the Chinese have opened the door to a further, gradual rise in the yuan’s value.
The government announced the change to an exchange rate of 8.11 yuan to the dollar in a surprise announcement on state television’s evening news. That raised the value of one yuan by about one-quarter of one U.S. cent to 12.33 cents.
The effect on U.S. financial markets was immediate: The dollar fell against other major currencies and yields on U.S. Treasury securities rose. If that rise in interest rates is sustained, it could make it more expensive for U.S. consumers to finance purchases of new cars, homes and other big-ticket items.
There was no clear indication of a single factor that prompted China to take the step now after rejecting foreign pressure for years and insisting that such a decision would be based solely on its own domestic economic concerns. China’s central bank said the change was being made to “improve the socialist market economic system.”
Economists have warned that China’s economy may be overheating. The government’s latest figures showed the country’s gross domestic product grew by 9.5 percent in the first half of 2005, despite efforts to rein it in.
The previous rate of 8.277 yuan to the dollar ? where it had been fixed for more than a decade ? kept China’s exports inexpensive but also forced Chinese companies to pay more for imported products such as oil and iron ore.
A more flexible rate could help Chinese firms deal with price shocks and boost exporters’ profits even if sales fall, said Frank Gong, managing director of JPMorgan Chase & Co. in Hong Kong.
“It will help balance Chinese trade flows,” he said. “It will help reduce the trade tensions that China has experienced with all of its major trading partners.”
A stronger yuan could also encourage domestic spending, making China’s economic growth less dependent on exports, he said.
China’s decision to base the yuan’s value on a basket of foreign currencies such as the euro or Japanese yen could see the yuan rise in value as the dollar weakens against those currencies, dragged down by mounting U.S. budget and trade deficits.
A further rise in the currency would push up the price of Chinese goods in dollar terms, heightening competition with other low-wage makers of shoes, clothes and appliances such as Bangladesh or Indonesia. It also could prompt more Chinese tourists to travel abroad.
“It will slow down the growth in exports a little in China,” said Nariman Behravesh, chief economist for the financial firm Global Insight in Lexington, Mass. “This kind of a change in currency isn’t going to change China’s competitiveness a lot. But it will take Chinese competitiveness down a notch.”
U.S. Treasury Secretary John Snow said Washington would watch to see whether the yuan will move to “alignment with underlying market conditions,” while Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan welcomed the decision as “a good start.”
China’s new system puts tight limits on daily changes in the yuan’s value but could allow it to change substantially over time.
Beginning Friday, the yuan will be limited to moving within a 0.3 percent band each day against a collection of as-of-yet unnamed foreign currencies, the government said. But the officially announced price at the end of each day will become the midpoint of trading for the next day, which could let the yuan edge up incrementally.
Malaysia also announced Thursday it was dropping its own policy tying its currency, the ringgit, to the U.S. dollar and would adopt a currency basket arrangement similar to China’s.
Hong Kong said it would keep its currency peg to the U.S. dollar, making it the only Asian economy left with such a link.
Grork,
One definition of diplomacy might be the ability to coexist with others without having to resort to warfare.
Now, yes, I realize sometimes other people want war and there is no avoiding it, but just as you can disagree with people and still have them as friends, you can disagree with some policies of other countries and still be on amicable terms.
One of the reasons the US has difficulties in the diplomatic world, as do many democracies, is that the leadership and hence stance of the the government changes a lot.
Don’t go looking for things in my statement that aren’t there…
[quote]flabtoslab wrote:
For those that don’t know, the US has treaties with Taiwan that would require US intervention against attack.
I really have to echo the statement about leverage in future talks. The US is China’s biggest trading partner. Stopping trade with China would do more damage than an attack could. [/quote]
Stopping trade with China would do as much damage to the US economy as to the Chinese one. All that cheap crap you buy at Wal-mart is made in China, and its availability has been anti-inflationary.
I’m pretty sure it was last year, we sent something like 3 complete carrier aircraft groups over to Taiwan, just to show China how fast we can get our planes over there to defend Taiwan. Something the Chinese have to think about.
Why is it in the best interests of the US to risk open war with China to protect a foreign country (Taiwan)?
The chinese people , i mean the average chinese Zhizhen Zhang kind of guy beleives that Taiwan has LONG been considered a part of China. I guess i could look up the facts about this and find out just when the Taiwan people decided to declare themselves independent but its probably a relatively recent thing.
Just to point out something: This is not like iraq. The chinese people have long considered taiwan to be a part of china and are taking this whole thing slow. Eventually taiwan will just give up. And just to point out, in the 1800’s one part of a country decide to cecede from another; we call this the civil war today so in order to not have individual states just declare themselves not part of the government anymore perhaps some kind of force is necessary
Read this y’all. This is definitely reassuring, but not totally
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050721/ap_on_re_as/china_us_taiwan
Im going to post the contents of the link here:
EIJING - China will not use nuclear weapons first in a military conflict, the foreign minister said Thursday as he tried to quell an uproar over a general’s remark that Beijing might use atomic bombs against U.S. forces in a conflict over Taiwan.
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Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing said China “will not first use nuclear weapons at any time and under any condition,” according to the official Xinhua News Agency. Li said China has embraced that stance since it developed nuclear weapons in 1964, and it “will not be changed in the future.”
Li made the comments to a group of academics from the United States, Japan and China, Xinhua said.
Beijing has been trying to reassure the United States and its Asian neighbors since Maj. Gen. Zhu Chenghu, a dean at China’s National Defense University, told foreign reporters last week that Beijing might use nuclear weapons if U.S. forces attacked China in a conflict over Taiwan.
According to Xinhua, Li said the general’s comment was “only his personal view.”
The State Department on July 15 criticized the remarks as “highly irresponsible” and asked for Chinese assurance that it did not reflect official thinking.
China claims Taiwan, which split from the mainland in 1949, as part of its territory and has threatened to invade if the self-governing island declares formal independence or puts off talks on unification.
Despite its efforts at diplomatic damage control, Beijing also has reaffirmed its insistence that it will not tolerate formal independence for Taiwan ? a step the mainland has said could lead to war.
Beijing said Saturday that China would “never tolerate Taiwan independence” and would not allow “anybody with any means to separate Taiwan from the motherland.”
The three-sentence Xinhua report on Li’s pledge Thursday did not mention Taiwan.
Li’s comments came a day after Beijing angrily rejected a new U.S. government report that says growing Chinese military ambitions could threaten other Asia-Pacific nations.
Li said Wednesday that China is “not a threat to anyone” and is intent on “developing in a peaceful way.”
[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
The chinese people , i mean the average chinese Zhizhen Zhang kind of guy beleives that Taiwan has LONG been considered a part of China. I guess i could look up the facts about this and find out just when the Taiwan people decided to declare themselves independent but its probably a relatively recent thing.
Just to point out something: This is not like iraq. The chinese people have long considered taiwan to be a part of china and are taking this whole thing slow. Eventually taiwan will just give up. And just to point out, in the 1800’s one part of a country decide to cecede from another; we call this the civil war today so in order to not have individual states just declare themselves not part of the government anymore perhaps some kind of force is necessary. [/quote]
I agree with that - China and Taiwan are not like Iraq and Kuwait, but are like Eastern and Southern Germany. And I second thabigdon24’s opinion that Taiwan will give it up. It will be like Eastern Germany - First the people giving it up emotionally / patriotically (They are the same people after all), then economically, and at last politically.
On the other hand, the nuclear thing is just bluffing, which happens all the time in international politics.
Let’s hope they will re-unite in peace like the Germen. We have already got too many wars in our world.
Geek boy
China will not use a nuke against the US. To do so would be suicide. They may have a capable ICBM force but it would be destroyed in place. The US has thousands of accurate nuclear weapons that would devestate the Chinese mainland vs. hundreds they may or may not have. They understand MAD. We would survive, they would not.
From an economic standpoint China cannot challenge the US at Sea. We can defeat them or blockade them at will. They know it and will not fuck with us just to find out. We are overwhelming at Sea. Above or below it. Nobody is dumb enough to try us. Not even the Chinese. In 20 years, if current trends continue, they may have parity.
Taiwan is our protectorate. If they decide to join the mainland we will support them. If they are invaded we will defend them. Because we have stated this they are off limits to the Chinese communists.
Thought this article on US Nuclear policy might be interesting.
STRATEGIC NUCLEAR WEAPONS: Why 10,000 Warheads?
July 27, 2005: What are America?s options when it comes to nuclear weapons? They exist, and are all laid out in the SIOP (Single Integrated Operational Plan). This is a top secret document, and has been undergoing a lot of revision since the end of the Cold War in 1991, and the beginning of the war on terror a decade later. The current version, officially called OPLAN (Operation Plan) 8044, was adopted in late 2004. This one apparently has nuclear missiles aimed at Iran and North Korea, and perhaps other Middle Eastern nations as well. Just in case there?s a nuclear terrorist attack, and the American people demand retribution.
The first SIOP was developed in 1962, and stayed pretty stable throughout the Cold War. That was a time when you knew who your key strategic enemies were. But things changed in the 1990s. The Cold War ended, and the age of terrorism began.
SIOP details have always been kept secret, lest the enemy, or the American tax payer, discover how many nuclear weapons were aimed at what targets. This would tell potential enemies how good, or not-so-good, American intelligence was on those targets. This was particularly true during the Cold War, when Russia and China had many secret underground headquarters and weapons storage areas. The U.S. currently has about 8,000 ?active? (ready for use) warheads, and some 2,500 in reserve. Russia and China still have many, probably over three thousand, nuclear warheads aimed at them. But many more are now aimed at nations like Iran and North Korea, that do not have reliable ICBMs aimed at the United States. What these two nations do have is the capability to provide terrorists with nuclear weapons, and that?s what makes Iran and North Korea targets for American nukes. This much of the SIOP has been revealed in the last few years, as a reminder that, if Islamic terrorists get their hands on nukes, the suppliers can expect nuclear retribution if any of those nukes are used.
Another big change since the end of the Cold War has been the speed with which ICBMs can have their targets changed. This is the result of improvements in hardware and software.
Would an American president actually give the order to retaliate using nukes? No one will know for sure until the unthinkable happens. Meanwhile, why are 10,000 warheads still in service? Mostly out of habit. There?s a substantial bureaucracy, and much inertia, working against attempts to reduce the size of the arsenal Even the nuclear arsenal is considered pork, because it costs billions of dollars a year to maintain all those warheads. The arsenal could probably be reduced by 90 percent, but no one is expecting that to happen any time soon.
I think we should build a Doomsday Device so if anyone nukes us the whole world explodes.
Of course we would have to keep it secret to the Chinese don’t copy it.
[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
Told you China sucked. You’ll be sorry nobody did anything about the great red/yellow menace.[/quote]
Wouldn’t that make them the orange menace?
Any equation featuring the U.S, China and war must include the Bolsheviks.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I think we should build a Doomsday Device so if anyone nukes us the whole world explodes.
Of course we would have to keep it secret to the Chinese don’t copy it.[/quote]
hahahahahahahahaha!
That was gold.
I love it.
Some Chinese general announces that if the US attacks China, it will retaliate.
Yawn.
Is this news?
Hey, if you guys attack Liechtenstein it will attempt to retaliate. It probably won’t be very succesfull. The Chinese stand a better chance however. They have a hughe landarmy (not very usefull to retaliate with however, with all that water in between), and they have nukes…
But for some morons this is an invitation to attack China??? WTF???
What part about “mutual annihilation” didn’t you understand?
Oh God, you guys are SO fucked.
Darwin I tell you. He’ll come and get you.
Taiwan doesn’t want to be a part of China. Because China sucks. The US didn’t want to be a part of England because back then, England sucked. The way I see it if Taiwan wants to be free of the Chinese more power to them, and I would gladly help in there fight.
[quote]Aleksandr wrote:
Grork wrote:
Vroom, I hope that post was sarcastic. When someone threatens to nuke 100s of your cities you don’t need diplomacy you need to drop another 100 billion in missle defense.
Didn’t the russians test a jet-propelled final-stage rocket a few years back? As in the kind that would make the planned missle defense system useless? I am not a rocket scientist, and I really don’t know much about this? Can anyone clarify this point?[/quote]
Ahh. The old Throw Enough Money At It And It Will Go Away tactic. Never seems to fail. Unless theres not enough money to begin with, then you’re shit screwed.