T Nation

China Rising, We're Number 2

Nothing has illuminated are new found weakness as well as the meeting in Alaska.
So let me set the stage: The U.S. kicked out the media and China brought them back in. Then this happened:

Keep in mind, China has 2 minutes and they took just shy of 20 berating the U.S. and our top diplomats did nothing. They do not take the U.S. seriously and are using the media’s talking points as a weapon against us.
Keep in mind this is after the anal swabbed our diplomats in China, as a joke and we did nothing. They are the grown ups and we look like children. We have a bitch with purple hair handling our most important economic adversary, they came in deadly serious.
While we are searching desperately for all these imaginary white supremacists and dehumanized and condemning our men folk, they are expanding our military and launched a program to revitalize masculinity. We essentially got woke and are going broke and our enemies laugh at us, to our faces. Not just in word, but in deed.
This is also known as Thucydides Trap, on steroids.
While we have no problem with going to war with little powers, China is ready to eat our lunch. We will hide from the big war that is looming, but somebody will have to fight it. Will it be too late?

The U.S.'s biggest problems are the ones nobody is talking about, but they are stark and real and there will be no hiding them soon enough. If this sounds like a doomsday prophecy, it is. We’re in bad fucking trouble and we better wake the hell up, if it’s not too late…

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Unless this is something other than what I am thinking, the US also laid down some pretty harsh rhetoric (condemning their treatment of the Uighurs).

China is going to be the World’s biggest economic force pretty soon (at least all signs point to that). I am not really sure what can be done to stop that.

While I don’t agree that all we have been doing is woke shit, I think a point could be made that somewhere in-between the two countries ideals is probably were we should be. We do focus on some stupid shit. We don’t get much done in government (compared to China who moves fast).

I am not convinced of any eminent war with China?

The last thing China wants is a war. They’re not stupid and neither is the US government (at least I hope so)

Why is that an issue? One country or region can’t stay “the top” forever. That’s just how history works. Rome was once number 1, China was once #1, Europe was once number 1…

Most economists agree that trade and cooperation > adversary. Just because China is rising doesn’t mean the US has to lose out. The point of capitalism is that economics isn’t a zero sum game

I agree. but

The Chinese government is far from the paragon of government efficiency.

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I am unsure of the speed of Chinese government proceedings. I should have said their speed at getting big shit done. Like all the rail, and roads they are building. They are setting themselves up to be efficient going into the future.


oh yeah, they’re really fast, but there’s also rampant corruption.
China might be rising now, but if they’re complacent, they won’t be for long.
Honestly, the US could be doing much better, and it isn’t because some foreign power is “eating our lunch”

@pat My point is that the US and China can both be great.

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That is why I reference ‘Thucydides Trap’, according to which war is a 75% possibility. Or the U.S. retreats in shame.
There is only one thing China needs to do to invoke war, take Taiwan. If we fight back, like we are obligated to do, then we are at war.
China has rushed in a huge military buildup. They are ready. Our military is in a 100 day stand down to root out white supremacists.

The problem with economic collaboration with China is that they don’t see capitalism the same way (if you can call what China is capitalism).

I’ve worked in several multinational corporations with offices in China that employ locals. If I am working with a German colleague, for instance, the economic loyalty is first to the company and second to the country. So if there is a German company that competes with my company, my German colleague is not likely to sell out our company to the competition just because the competition is run by Germans. In China, the reverse is true. My Chinese colleague is more loyal to Chinese run competitors than our own company. That model makes sense in certain ways, but is also not compatible with international collaboration. This plays out through relationships to intellectual property, collusion, and fair competition.

In short, China doesn’t want to compete on an equal basis. This isn’t so much about the Chinese people as the environment that the Chinese government has created. The people understand to whom they owe top loyalty if they want to prosper.


Nor are you ready for it. And that’s part of the problem.

This is really dumb IMO
China has gotten better at putting economics above politics, but they still have a long way to go, and if I’m honest, I don’t have much faith in the current government to make much progress

The latter is preferable. This theory is based off of ancient Greece. I don’t know if that holds up today. Once the other guy has convinced me he can kick my ass, I guess I have lost interest in a fight.

I think the idea of going to war to remain the top dog is beyond stupid. I would try the best I can to not be forced to fight that war. If I could move to a non involved country to avoid a war over which county has a bigger dick, that would be preferable.

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I’m a Chinese American and sincerely hope that both do well, regardless of who’s dick is bigger.

With that said, I feel that both governments are being quite childish. I don’t give a rat’s arse about politics or patriotism… Just get the economy right and don’t blow each other up

If not, I’m moving to Germany


I think among a lot of other topics, this one is viewed a zero sum game. China doing better means the US is doing worse. I don’t think that assumption is justified. I think it is possible that China doing well could be really great for the US if they cooperate with each other.

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I sincerely hope the two governments realize this and are only putting on a show

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Was gonna reply respond to this but then I read this and you already wrote the same thing lol:

Agreed. They don’t even have anyone with combat experience, ALL the high ranking guys in the military either bought their positions or got them through nepotism and China has never won a single war in history.

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I used to have lots of respect for Xi Jinping. But credible insiders have recently told me he’s actually a dumbass. Maybe he’s just getting old. I’m keeping an open mind and watching the stuff going on atm. The skirmish with India was dumb as fuck.

I’ve heard he was chosen BECAUSE he’s dumb

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Look, in the whole world all the way to my end, even taxi drivers in their 60s are still laughing about Trump’s “injecting disinfectant” remark. I hate the “woke shit” but what fucked things up. No one is talking about the “woke” shit. Do you know that when my wife was looking at for some kind of new bleach for that won’t fuck up the colors on clothes, there was a pop-up window on one of the manufacturer’s sites that read “Not to be injected or orally consumed” or something like that? Can you believe that a company actually perceived the need and took the time to add this disclaimer on their website?

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It’s the Gang of Four all over again lol.

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Well when Pat pops back up you know some crazy ass China thread is coming.

We aren’t going to war with China. People have been saying that shit for forever. Why the fuck would either side do that?

We’ve got legitimate issues we can discuss about China. They are making their army masculine and we aren’t ready for war with them is stupid as shit. We’re more than ready for war with anyone look at our defense capabilities. But it’s not happening this isn’t some dumbass movie.


I’m skeptical if he actually meant it seriously. He seemed like the kind of person who says stupid things just to get attention.

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