T Nation

China Is Drying Up

No more homebrew

ANy of you guys have any input here?

From what I can see, powder sources are dropping like flies over there due to some new laws. Details seem to be REALLY scarce.

I’ve heard some talk of somethin called “operation angry fire” where chinese authorities seem to be co-operating with US authorities…it says it is now illegal to send hormone powders to the US and any chinese caught doing so is prosecutable by U.S courts!! (seems strange)

Only found one reference to this operation on google, and there was VERY little info on it.
http://www.consumerlabreports.co.uk/undergroundinsanity.htm
No info seems to be forthcoming from the powder sources either…all are tight lipped.

I have also read that they have put the head of their version of the FDA to death for corruption!!

Supposedly the chinese are trying to clean up their game prior to the olympics and also they have a bad rep now because of recent incidents such as the deaths in the US of thousands of pets from toxic chinese pet food and the recent recall of chinese toothpaste containing dangerous chemicals from south america.

Ahh, what a nightmare!!

I have been a big fan of home-brewing but now it looks like it’s all down the toilet!! Have contacted a couple of sources I have made some substantial purchases off in the past and they are still not willing to ship me powder (even though I live in europe, not the U.S)

ANy of you guys experiencing the same?? ANyone have any legit sources that are still up and running? (best to keep any names on PM level, since a big reason for this situation is the advertising by powder sources on open boards)

CD

there is lots of BS going around the other boards about this. most of it is poorly informed people making wild guesses. so far some suppliers are reporting they are having issues shipping to the US and ongoing investigation. others remain in business.

other rumors include that the chinese have run out of finished product from at least two of the production companies as they have switched to more lucarative chemicals.

either way, if you have sources that are working, best to keep it to yourself till the whole thing shakes out, otherwise the whole mess will repeat again in a few months.

You can’t find anything outside of message board gossip that even mentions “angry fire”.

I personally think this is a bunch of made up crap to scare the UG’s and homebrewers out of doing what they do.

But with that said - there is something going on over in China. Sources are no longer taking new customers. They are dropping smaller customers and unless you are a pretty big player, it is getting hard to find hormone powder sources.

I have talked to a couple of folks about it, and they all say that this is a temporary situation. There is way too much money involved, and China is way too greedy to shut the doors forever.

But I could be wrong.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Well, we’ll see I suppose.

Your right though, the only info I have seen about this “angry fire” operation is a couple of rumours and every second person seems to have an opinion on what is going on…hard to get any truth about the situation.

The chinese are a tough nut to crack in that it seems damn near impossible to get any information via their media since they are censored so much from the outside world. The “great chinese firewall” guards all their internet info, so web searches are usually unlikely to turn up anything. Sources are remaining pretty tight lipped about what the cause of all these troubles are…a few definitly seem to have gone underground or are dealing exclusively only in GH & IGF now, not powders…I know one of the main sources who I have dealt with several times in the past seems to have gone underground (will remain nameless, but if your familiar with sources you no doubt know him…his first name has 3 letters) most do say its temporary though.

I know a couple of reasonably sized players who would make purchases of $2000-3000 every couple months, who are now being ignored by their sources…if sources are ignoring deals of 2000-3000 then there must be something pretty serious happenin.

Like you said though, it’s impossible to know…just hope it all blows over quick enough…the chinese love money thats for sure, so hopefully the almighty dollar will pull through for us. I definitley think the days of open board advertisising and source discussion is over for good. If you ask me though, that wouldnt be such a bad thing since I think it was somewhat ridiculous to have such brazen and open advertising of this stuff on boards.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
One of my friends regularly talks to his powder supplier on the phone - he is a MASSIVE customer.

The source is big enough that he can reship a 10,000g order without a blink.

I have been in urgent talks with my friend over the last 2 days.

It looks VERY bad at the moment, and could go either way. Either the factories will have t shut down because the law in China will make it illegal to export without the proper documentation, etc.

Modafinil and clen are scheduled drugs in China, and this may have been what caused certain sources to have already been arrested. If you know someone who reminds you of a ‘lion’ - he’s in prison. Other sources are in hiding, including my one.

And yes, it’s the fault of the olympics, and the FUCKING AMERICAN ‘WORLD POLICE’. Ohhh, steroids are bad, and you should stop making them because we say so. Bollocks.

However all is not lost.

It could be resolved soon, with a typical Eastern mentality ‘about face’, i.e. create a scapegoat or loophole that efectively allows a sidestep of the law.

Steroid powders may still come from china, but modafinil and clen, unlikely.

I have been searching for mew sources ll afternoon. At the moment, I’m more worried about the modafinil, believe it or not, but my chemist friend and I are trying out a new source for steroids.

Needless to say, you can save asking me for sources, lol. In time, I may reveal, but at the moment it’s every man for hiself, plus I wouldn’t want to steer anyone down a bad path…

Keeping fingers crossed

bushy[/quote]

Shit,

Thats bad bad news to hear…

Didnt realise that guy was in prison…have attempted to contact him and his email is on autoresponse saying he will be back on a specific date so I figured he was just underground for a while…

Yeah man, I’m REALLY woried about the moda myself since I fuckin live of the stuff!! Really like it…it’s my version of a morning coffie. belive it or not, like yourself, I’m more worried about the lack of that stuff than I am about juice…since the price is ridiculously expensive if you buy from internet pharmacies…once you go powder it’s a nightmare to go back to anything else!!

Sure hope they use the scapegoat approach…they have done so many times in the past for things completely unrelated to steroids…but I think the '08 games might be putting massive pressure on them. I mean, they REALLY wanted those games…so I think they’ll probably crush anything that gets in the way of the games or threatnes to make them look bad in front of the whole world.

For sure though, we’re gonna have to sit tight for a while with our fingers crossed. Your tight lippedness on sources is probalby a good idea (even though I’d love to know…lol!!!), but it’s fuckin loose lips on the boards which has gotten all homebrewers into this crappy situation in the first place. Always thought the long, very public, discussions on various sources was a bad idea.

Just a random though bushy or RJ (or anyone else), do you see any other powder markets opening up if it transpires that the chinese market falls for good??? Possibly India for example, or maybe south america etc?? ANy other countries which would come close to the level of pharmaceutical raw material manufacture that the chinese do?? No idea what the legal situation re. hormone powders is in those countries but wisdom would suggest that where there’s demand (which there certainly is) a supply will arise…

Gonna have to find myself a cheap moda source now dammit!!! Really wish I didnt sell the powders I bought a while back!!!

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
One of my friends regularly talks to his powder supplier on the phone - he is a MASSIVE customer.

The source is big enough that he can reship a 10,000g order without a blink.

I have been in urgent talks with my friend over the last 2 days.

It looks VERY bad at the moment, and could go either way. Either the factories will have t shut down because the law in China will make it illegal to export without the proper documentation, etc.

Modafinil and clen are scheduled drugs in China, and this may have been what caused certain sources to have already been arrested. If you know someone who reminds you of a ‘lion’ - he’s in prison. Other sources are in hiding, including my one.

And yes, it’s the fault of the olympics, and the FUCKING AMERICAN ‘WORLD POLICE’. Ohhh, steroids are bad, and you should stop making them because we say so. Bollocks.

However all is not lost.

It could be resolved soon, with a typical Eastern mentality ‘about face’, i.e. create a scapegoat or loophole that efectively allows a sidestep of the law.

Steroid powders may still come from china, but modafinil and clen, unlikely.

I have been searching for mew sources ll afternoon. At the moment, I’m more worried about the modafinil, believe it or not, but my chemist friend and I are trying out a new source for steroids.

Needless to say, you can save asking me for sources, lol. In time, I may reveal, but at the moment it’s every man for hiself, plus I wouldn’t want to steer anyone down a bad path…

Keeping fingers crossed

bushy[/quote]

Oh and shipping WITH correct docs may not be a problem legally with where i’m from (ireland…as ya know, lol), but I’ll have to look into the legal aspects of it and research some legislation. Just something to think about…but it could be possible that if the chinese need to use proper docs they could still ship to ireland.

But like I said, not exactly sure…I’m just talkin off the top of my head and will have to research the legislation.

I’m in the same boat as a few of you on the modafinil. I can get a prescription quite easily but the stuff costs 300 a month for a moderate dosage. I don’t have the slightest idea why Cephalon doesn’t substantially lower prices considering how large the potential market is.

I hope this is resolved one way or another soon.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Come on guys, it’s not that hard to find a source for moda.

Shit, I found 2 yesterday. 1 has emailed me back with a price, and the other I’m still waiting on.

I’ll get samples, get’em tested and buy a few kilos for a rainy day, lol.

bushy[/quote]

Really??

I’ve only tried a few sources, but have been stonewalled by 'em. Have a few more I could try but have not had experience with before so will be cautious.

Reckon I’ll definitley have to find a good moda source and stock up on a kilo or so.

Might make an invesment and stock up on other powders too for a personal rainy day supply…provided they’re legit, of course.

Celtic devil, where are you based mate?
I’m guessing UK or Ireland?

I talked to a guy today that is very well informed in the industry. He told me the same thing. The IOC is doing some kind of crackdown and the Chinese suppliers are going to be put out of business.

[quote]P-DOG wrote:
I talked to a guy today that is very well informed in the industry. He told me the same thing. The IOC is doing some kind of crackdown and the Chinese suppliers are going to be put out of business. [/quote]

…until the day after the closing ceremony. There is way too much money to be made in the black market powder game to just walk away from it.

Does anyone know the status of any of these sources?

Mike (Pur**)
Nordic
Leo

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
Does anyone know the status of any of these sources?

Mike (Pur**)
Nordic
Leo[/quote]

My little birdie says the last two are out of business.

[quote]dan nukem wrote:
Celtic devil, where are you based mate?
I’m guessing UK or Ireland?
[/quote]

Based in dublin buddy.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Schwarzenegger wrote:
Does anyone know the status of any of these sources?

Mike (Pur**)
Nordic
Leo

My little birdie says the last two are out of business. [/quote]

First is dealing exclusively in GH/IGF now.

I was in talks with him last week, and order was submitted to him last week…but he still has not replied back. Luckiy I have not transferred money yet as it does not look good for him since he is very very quiet at the moment.

SEcond - dont know.

Third - email is on auto-response. Although some on other boards have said they have talked to him personally on the phone and he advises all is Ok and is underground. Others say he’s locked up. No way to possibly know as rumours are rife at the moment.

BTW - no specific info to be put in public forum. Anything detailed should be kept to PM level. Best to be safe about these things…especially at the moment.

[quote]CELTIC-DEVIL wrote:
rainjack wrote:
Schwarzenegger wrote:
Does anyone know the status of any of these sources?

Mike (Pur**)
Nordic
Leo

My little birdie says the last two are out of business.

First is dealing exclusively in GH/IGF now.

I was in talks with him last week, and order was submitted to him last week…but he still has not replied back. Luckiy I have not transferred money yet as it does not look good for him since he is very very quiet at the moment.

SEcond - dont know.

Third - email is on auto-response. Although some on other boards have said they have talked to him personally on the phone and he advises all is Ok and is underground. Others say he’s locked up. No way to possibly know as rumours are rife at the moment.

BTW - no specific info to be put in public forum. Anything detailed should be kept to PM level. Best to be safe about these things…especially at the moment.[/quote]

Well, first guy replied to me today so he seems to be OK.

It gets weirder though.

When I went to a western union office they told me that due to security reasons there was now a $1000 limit on all transfers to china due to security reasons.

I asked what type of security problems but, unsurprisingly, the employee was not able to tell me.

Seems like this may well be related to the crack down by the chinese on steroid powders. It shows that the chinese are taking this this thing VERY VERY seriously.

Thanks for the update.

Just bumping for a further update.