T Nation

China, Huawei, and the World Order

It seems now half of the reason for this whole thing happening is just to bolster the American trade position. Trump wants fuck you leverage, and we Canadians just have to toady along. I grant the 5G implications could be serious, but this story just pisses me off.

Trump has hated China since 1978. Go watch his interviews from back then. He’ll pull any lever he can.

Well… he’s not wrong… (Broken clock and all)

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Dunno where to plant this. Articles like this are music to my eyes. Fuckin gitem FTC

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To be fair, acute liver failure will result in weight loss eventually. When you die.


That’s fantastic! At this point it might be like pissing on a brush fire, but at least there’s some justice.

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I suppose I have to admit I took my own thread too lightly, and this is what I get.

Sacked for heroism by the worst government since we lost the colonies. Good job, Tories.

Racial animus is not at the heart of this issue. It’s China’s emergence as a great power rival and its nasty streak of autocratic behavior at home and abroad.

Huawei (along with every other Chinese tech firm) is essentially an extension of the Ministry of State Security (roughly the equivalent of the US’ FBI and CIA sans legal restrictions) and the People’s “Liberation” Army. It makes sense that the West would be wary of Huawei and seek to limit its activities outside of China.


Couldn’t agree more on the first part. I take issue with the second. The United States and her allies have deep expertise when it comes China. The issues we face are more on self inflicted wounds on policy side. As abysmal as Trump’s foreign policy has been, perhaps his biggest strategic failure is the decision to not follow through on American leadership on the Transpacific-Partnership (TPP).

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So we have some Canadians arrested in China for espionage and drug trafficking. the Chinese don’t seem to have to have sympathy with us, and they are reducing imports.

this is old news, but when our government tries to talk about it, they don’t seem to need to give a damn.

Couldn’t agree more that many are self inflicted and we really should have finished the TPP.

My comment was more aimed at the “long term” view of Chinese policy and nationalism games, as well as her people (a thread I have noticed in common with the Japanese) where the USA and much of her people have extremely short term perspectives. Basically you’re talking about countries with extremely long cultural and religious memories, which are contiguous rather than tumultuous as is the case with Western Europe through the last 1500 years. In a rather crude example, if a Chinese (or Japanese) immigrant couple comes to the USA they are already thinking of how they are going to work and save to achieve the life they want to build for their grandchildren…a US person is thinking about how soon they can buy that 105" TV they saw with little regard for their retirement.

Also that the Chinese brand of nationalism/opportunism and their general philosophical outlooks are completely foreign to the culture here.

In short I was referring to the “man on the street” understanding rather than digging at the intelligence community. While I have some reservations, I have no doubt that there are armies of analysts and that we have spent large sums of time and money to develop analytical power on Chinese ambitions.

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Speaking of the TTP, isn’t it true there’s now 2. One with our Pacific allies and one with China and her allies. I believe our country has been cut out of both of these agreements. Is this true?

Import/export Bank estimates China spent $130,000,000,000 in credit and trade allowances to grease the skids of export.

Couple with whole industry price predation, zip evironmental / safety regulation, propietary theft, and outright blockage of imports.

China has morphed from the unruly teenager that slipped out at night after bedtime, to the belligerent young adult that shot his father for lowering his allowance or has to be compelled to leave the house by legal proceedings.

Unfortunately, this is how you completely dominate a trade war. Tactics 101. Economists cited this as one of the main reasons to not even start.

Agreed. Fuck China.

The question becomes, how to take down the young adult we spent the past few decades arming

Decades of selling into the corporate world viewpoint as my basis.
The bigger “partner” calls the shots ultimately. A car manufacturer tells the suppliers, no matter their size in the their area, how much they will pay, what terms, how many, when, etc.

The US is still the car manufacturer in my mind, although China is supplying mucho components. There are only a few areas that can not be re-sourced ultimately - maybe a few rare earth materials and some electronics. Not oblivious to the zillions of things we buy from them, but buying trinkets from Walmart or widgets at Lowes can be made elsewhere, albeit with supply shortages and retooling costs.

All to say, they need our $ more than we need their cheap goods. With the government backstopping all investments and economic activities, they have built a house of cards centered on ever increasing exports. Take those dollars (before they have secured alternative markets) and they now have capital obligations without servicing cash flow, former farmers living in urban areas with no work, and strain on military ambitions.

I don’t feel like i am educating you, as l think you know this - just rambling to take a break from some chores around the house.

TL:DR They need us more than them, even though we have built their economy and military.
We cut off the money like dad, but Jr will have a hard time getting past our rings of body guards.

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I think the relative lifestyle between US and China needs to be taken into consideration here. Put simply, Americans seem to be some of the whiniest people around, ESPECIALLY when compared to the likes of China, of which the majority of its citizens live a 2nd world lifestyle at best.

I think China’s ability and willingness to fuck with their currency and directly/openly control inflation reigns a good bit of this in. Plus they would have a very similar ability that we have to just blatantly ignore their debt, which works slightly better when you’re controlling your currency and stealing secrets to bolster your economy.

100% Agreed. Neither side is going to be able to do anything with farmers when the demand shifts. I shudder to think about the future of farmers given the global realization that they truly need a non American source of certain crops. Mexico’s deal with Brazil on soy comes to mind. Ohio has a good bit of soy. Iirc it’s even more than our corn.

Without making this about Lt Orange, I think there’s a very large power discrepancy between ego driven America and ‘POTUS’ for life China

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I just found this article today, a few excerpts stand out:

et Mr. Ren has little hope. “I don’t think the U.S. will remove us from the Entity List,” he said. “They have added Huawei to the list not because we have done something wrong and need to be punished, but because they want to wipe us out. If someone wants to condemn you, they can always trump up a charge.”

The company has also rejected repeated allegations that its success is built on stolen technology. On Thursday, chief legal officer Song Liuping said that “in the past 30 years, no court has ever concluded that Huawei engaged in malicious intellectual-property theft. And we have never been required by the court to pay damages for this.”

One of his primary tasks, however, remains convincing the rest of the world that Huawei is not a threat. The company has been placed under intense global scrutiny, accused by Western scholars and politicians of running a Potemkin employee ownership scheme and labelled a security threat by those who doubt that any company in China could grow to Huawei’s size and stature without the ministrations, if not the outright control, of the Chinese state. The company has denied all of the allegations against it, claiming – improbably, observers say – that it would reject government demands to spy on its overseas customers.

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Actually l was referring to the spoiled man/child that just shot his hedge fund dad for dailing back his allowance. Should have linked it. You can’t make up some this crap.

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I have worked for a couple companies that have Chinese divisions. The thing to keep in mind with these situations is that the loyalty lens of Chinese employees is different than the loyalty lens of American employees. American employees are generally loyal to the profit motives of their companies (including the foreign parts) more than the profit motives of other American companies. Chinese employees are more inclined to be loyal to the profit motives of Chinese companies over the profit motives of the American companies that they might happen to work for.

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