Chiefs Linebacker Kills Girlfriend, Takes Own Life

Dude is a murderer and any sort of tribute TO HIM would be a fucking tragedy. If there’s a tribute it needs to be for the woman he shot, the now orphaned child, and the coach+GM that had to go through the experience they did.

Clearly had severe mental issues? Lol, oh ok doc. Thanks for the diagnosis.

Look, of course the guy did something awful but who knows why it happened? Could it be because, like another poster said, he found out she was cheating and pregnant by another dude? Maybe. Could it be that they were fighting and she came at him with a weapon trying to kill him? Maybe. Could it be that he found out she was a closet heroin addict that had given him HIV because of her irresponsible elicit drug use and needle sharing? Maybe Could it be because he was a just a total and complete psychopath who had severe mental problems? Sure, maybe. Looks like we’ll probably never know since the only two people who could answer truthfully are now dead.

Are any of these reasons cause for justifiably killing someone? IMO, they are not but some are plausible explanations that do not entail a history of ongoing “severe mental issues.”

Just because we see the final outcome of a murder suicide doesn’t mean that he clearly had severe mental issues.

Thats nice and all but how many fantasy football points is this worth?

I’m kind of repeating what others have said perfectly well (ty, gregron) – but the adulation is kind of nauseating.

Yeah, someone who kills someone else, then offs themselves, probably had mental problems. And sure, maybe if other people picked up on his problems soon enough, the situation could have been avoided one way or another.

It’s a tragedy, no doubt.

I could see how someone could completely flip out, get violent, unintentionally kill someone with a head blow, then panic so utterly that this person would kill themselves. I can even empathize with such a situation.

Then again, maybe he was a murderous little turd who doesn’t deserve a moment of sympathy.

Whatever the end story will turn out to be, it’s still inappropriate to make this all about Belcher, to make this HIS memorial.

Sure, maybe avoid convicting him in the press until we get more info…but no cheesy photo montages of the guy, please?

I’m glad he offed himself. What a piece of shit!

Oh and I have zero sympathy for people who commit suicide. I am in no way mourning this guy.

[quote]gregron wrote:
Clearly had severe mental issues? Lol, oh ok doc. Thanks for the diagnosis.

Look, of course the guy did something awful but who knows why it happened? Could it be because, like another poster said, he found out she was cheating and pregnant by another dude? Maybe. Could it be that they were fighting and she came at him with a weapon trying to kill him? Maybe. Could it be that he found out she was a closet heroin addict that had given him HIV because of her irresponsible elicit drug use and needle sharing? Maybe Could it be because he was a just a total and complete psychopath who had severe mental problems? Sure, maybe. Looks like we’ll probably never know since the only two people who could answer truthfully are now dead.

Are any of these reasons cause for justifiably killing someone? IMO, they are not but some are plausible explanations that do not entail a history of ongoing “severe mental issues.”

Just because we see the final outcome of a murder suicide doesn’t mean that he clearly had severe mental issues.
[/quote]

If you murder someone under your own free will you are mentally ill, the cause is irrelevant.

So police officers who shot suspect are mentally ill?

You come home to find your wife being raped and hit the attacker in the head and they die from brain trauma, you’re mentally ill?

Military members who kill the enemy in combat are mentally ill?

You walk in on you young child being molested and assault the assailant and they die from it you’re mentally ill?

[quote]gregron wrote:
So police officers who shot suspect are mentally ill?

You come home to find your wife being raped and hit the attacker in the head and they die from brain trauma, you’re mentally ill?

Military members who kill the enemy in combat are mentally ill?

You walk in on you young child being molested and assault the assailant and they die from it you’re mentally ill?[/quote]

[quote]gregron wrote:
So police officers who shot suspect are mentally ill?

You come home to find your wife being raped and hit the attacker in the head and they die from brain trauma, you’re mentally ill?

Military members who kill the enemy in combat are mentally ill?

You walk in on you young child being molested and assault the assailant and they die from it you’re mentally ill?[/quote]

Well

Killing someone isnt the best action to stop any other those things…

“Illness” is the wrong word…but in the cases of rape and molestation…inability to deal with stress and anger…without thinking you could kill your child or wife…shooting out of impilse is a problem

Military and police both are brainwashed somewhat from all the soldiers and police ive known…not a negative thing…they just are.

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

If you murder someone under your own free will you are mentally ill, the cause is irrelevant.[/quote]

You’re suggesting a definition of ‘mentally ill’ that seems to come out of circular reasoning (i.e., a murderer is mentally ill…how do you know? Because anyone who murders someone is mentally ill).

Countless people throughout history have used murder for simple, logical goals – political power, improved economic situation, removal of a sexual rival. All very standard survival/resource attainment goals that are well understood to anyone. These same people will often plan out how to carry out said plan without retribution.

The consistency of murder as a survival tool (well beyond direct, immediate self-defense) indicates that it is a standard practice. As a society, we discourage such behavior because as individuals we want to avoid getting murdered.

Just because society doesn’t approve of a specific behavior does not in any demonstrable way mean that to pursue such behavior is a sign of mental illness.

Bad form, yes…behavior worthy of punishment? Certainly. Insanity? I don’t think so, and I seriously doubt you can possibly prove your case.

That doesn’t mean that this particular guy wasn’t psychologically messed up…but murder itself is not proof of mental illness.

The fact that he offed himself in front of his coach & some teammates…well that might hint at some serious mental illness, and again, maybe this illness could have been caught before it got out of hand.

That still doesn’t mean I need to feel sympathy for him (empathy, maybe…not sympathy), and it STILL does not mean that he should be given these nauseating photo montages celebrating his celebrity.

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
So police officers who shot suspect are mentally ill?

You come home to find your wife being raped and hit the attacker in the head and they die from brain trauma, you’re mentally ill?

Military members who kill the enemy in combat are mentally ill?

You walk in on you young child being molested and assault the assailant and they die from it you’re mentally ill?[/quote]

[/quote]

What’s to say the LB who killed his GF wasn’t committing manslaughter?

The labeling of the different degrees of murder and manslaughter are for sentencing purposes. If you want to argue semantics of murder vs manslaughter then you’re in the wrong place.

You and I both know what you meant by your post.

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

If you murder someone under your own free will you are mentally ill, the cause is irrelevant.[/quote]

You’re suggesting a definition of ‘mentally ill’ that seems to come out of circular reasoning (i.e., a murderer is mentally ill…how do you know? Because anyone who murders someone is mentally ill).

Countless people throughout history have used murder for simple, logical goals – political power, improved economic situation, removal of a sexual rival. All very standard survival/resource attainment goals that are well understood to anyone. These same people will often plan out how to carry out said plan without retribution.

The consistency of murder as a survival tool (well beyond direct, immediate self-defense) indicates that it is a standard practice. As a society, we discourage such behavior because as individuals we want to avoid getting murdered.

Just because society doesn’t approve of a specific behavior does not in any demonstrable way mean that to pursue such behavior is a sign of mental illness.

Bad form, yes…behavior worthy of punishment? Certainly. Insanity? I don’t think so, and I seriously doubt you can possibly prove your case.

That doesn’t mean that this particular guy wasn’t psychologically messed up…but murder itself is not proof of mental illness.

The fact that he offed himself in front of his coach & some teammates…well that might hint at some serious mental illness, and again, maybe this illness could have been caught before it got out of hand.

That still doesn’t mean I need to feel sympathy for him (empathy, maybe…not sympathy), and it STILL does not mean that he should be given these nauseating photo montages celebrating his celebrity.

[quote]Elegua360 wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

If you murder someone under your own free will you are mentally ill, the cause is irrelevant.[/quote]

You’re suggesting a definition of ‘mentally ill’ that seems to come out of circular reasoning (i.e., a murderer is mentally ill…how do you know? Because anyone who murders someone is mentally ill).

Countless people throughout history have used murder for simple, logical goals – political power, improved economic situation, removal of a sexual rival. All very standard survival/resource attainment goals that are well understood to anyone. These same people will often plan out how to carry out said plan without retribution.

The consistency of murder as a survival tool (well beyond direct, immediate self-defense) indicates that it is a standard practice. As a society, we discourage such behavior because as individuals we want to avoid getting murdered.

Just because society doesn’t approve of a specific behavior does not in any demonstrable way mean that to pursue such behavior is a sign of mental illness.

Bad form, yes…behavior worthy of punishment? Certainly. Insanity? I don’t think so, and I seriously doubt you can possibly prove your case.

That doesn’t mean that this particular guy wasn’t psychologically messed up…but murder itself is not proof of mental illness.

The fact that he offed himself in front of his coach & some teammates…well that might hint at some serious mental illness, and again, maybe this illness could have been caught before it got out of hand.

That still doesn’t mean I need to feel sympathy for him (empathy, maybe…not sympathy), and it STILL does not mean that he should be given these nauseating photo montages celebrating his celebrity. [/quote]

I am not equating insanity with with mental illness. The two are not very much the same.

I would like to point out that in your argument you use the same circular logic: People throughout history have murdered, therefore murder is a form of healthy human condition, Therefore mentally healthy humans can commit murder.

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
So police officers who shot suspect are mentally ill?

You come home to find your wife being raped and hit the attacker in the head and they die from brain trauma, you’re mentally ill?

Military members who kill the enemy in combat are mentally ill?

You walk in on you young child being molested and assault the assailant and they die from it you’re mentally ill?[/quote]

[/quote]

What’s to say the LB who killed his GF wasn’t committing manslaughter?

The labeling of the different degrees of murder and manslaughter are for sentencing purposes. If you want to argue semantics of murder vs manslaughter then you’re in the wrong place.

You and I both know what you meant by your post.[/quote]

I’m going by the ‘murder-suicide’ headlines on this one.

Regardless my point is, I see a large distinction between murdering (killing someone out of pure free will) and killing someone while protecting yourself or others.

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

I am not equating insanity with with mental illness. The two are not very much the same.

I would like to point out that in your argument you use the same circular logic: People throughout history have murdered, therefore murder is a form of healthy human condition, Therefore mentally healthy humans can commit murder.
[/quote]

Grantd, but his view makes more sense.

Yours assumes that human nature is pretty, which is unlikely.

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
Clearly had severe mental issues? Lol, oh ok doc. Thanks for the diagnosis.

Look, of course the guy did something awful but who knows why it happened? Could it be because, like another poster said, he found out she was cheating and pregnant by another dude? Maybe. Could it be that they were fighting and she came at him with a weapon trying to kill him? Maybe. Could it be that he found out she was a closet heroin addict that had given him HIV because of her irresponsible elicit drug use and needle sharing? Maybe Could it be because he was a just a total and complete psychopath who had severe mental problems? Sure, maybe. Looks like we’ll probably never know since the only two people who could answer truthfully are now dead.

Are any of these reasons cause for justifiably killing someone? IMO, they are not but some are plausible explanations that do not entail a history of ongoing “severe mental issues.”

Just because we see the final outcome of a murder suicide doesn’t mean that he clearly had severe mental issues.
[/quote]

If you murder someone under your own free will you are mentally ill, the cause is irrelevant.[/quote]

According to who?

CS

What a fucking selfish bastard. A daughter is now without her mother because that pig believed she was his property.

I hope he rots in hell.

[quote]Elegua360 wrote:

[quote]Anonymity wrote:

If you murder someone under your own free will you are mentally ill, the cause is irrelevant.[/quote]

You’re suggesting a definition of ‘mentally ill’ that seems to come out of circular reasoning (i.e., a murderer is mentally ill…how do you know? Because anyone who murders someone is mentally ill).

Countless people throughout history have used murder for simple, logical goals – political power, improved economic situation, removal of a sexual rival. All very standard survival/resource attainment goals that are well understood to anyone. These same people will often plan out how to carry out said plan without retribution.

The consistency of murder as a survival tool (well beyond direct, immediate self-defense) indicates that it is a standard practice. As a society, we discourage such behavior because as individuals we want to avoid getting murdered.

Just because society doesn’t approve of a specific behavior does not in any demonstrable way mean that to pursue such behavior is a sign of mental illness.

Bad form, yes…behavior worthy of punishment? Certainly. Insanity? I don’t think so, and I seriously doubt you can possibly prove your case.

That doesn’t mean that this particular guy wasn’t psychologically messed up…but murder itself is not proof of mental illness.

The fact that he offed himself in front of his coach & some teammates…well that might hint at some serious mental illness, and again, maybe this illness could have been caught before it got out of hand.

That still doesn’t mean I need to feel sympathy for him (empathy, maybe…not sympathy), and it STILL does not mean that he should be given these nauseating photo montages celebrating his celebrity. [/quote]

Stick around, new guy.

[quote]DarkNinjaa wrote:
What a fucking selfish bastard. A daughter is now without her mother because that pig believed she was his property.

I hope he rots in hell.[/quote]

DN, I think you are one of T-Nations most interesting members and you definitely add a lot to many discusssion.

However, let’s try to stay at least a little objective, even in a thread like this. Some of you will probably know Paul Carter from lift-run-bang. This is what he wrote in his latest training blog about what happened:

[quote]Paul Carter wrote:

Notes - Found out this morning that the Chiefs player who killed his girlfriend and then himself, was my friend Jovan Belcher. That makes three friends I have lost to suicide this year, so I pretty much went in and got some work in, but was really side tracked the whole time.

What an awful year 2012 has been…[/quote]

It’s understandable when you call somebody who murders a human being an asshole. Despite that, I think it’s extremely important to keep one’s perspective and try to stay civil when discussing issues like this one.