T Nation

Chest ?'s

Facts:
Working out since Febuary of 06.
19 years old, 186lbs
3400 calories a day.
210 Grams of protein.
Every gram of fat that I intake is from either virgin olive oil or peanut butter.

I have a two days on one day off split. I hit every body group with the same intensity of the other.

Here’s my break down…
Legs: Squats, Sled, Quad Extensions, sitting calf raises, sitting calf raises

Chest: Arnolds Mass movement Incline bench press(Clean and jerk then do the set), dumb bell press, cable flys, incline flies.

Tri’s: Seated skull crusher, Cable press down, rope press down, kick backs, reverse press downs to burn out.

Bi’s: Standing reverse E-Z curl bar, wide grip barbell curl, Incline dumb bell curls, hammer curls.

Back, Chin-ups, close grip chin-ups, wide grip lat, close grip lat, seated rows, bent over rows, dead-lifts, and clean and jerk.

Shoulders: Behind the neck military press, front raises, upright rows(close and wide) dumb bell shrugs.

Why is my chest so saggy, what can I do to correct it and why is my lower chest non-existant? It just tappers off. What can I do to fix that?

Well, it does not appear that you have any gyno but you could look into that as a possible problem. From your picture it would appear that you don’t have too much muscle mass and that is indeed that reason that you are disappointed with your chest mass.

Also, your body fat is prolly too high for you to see any definition. Your program looks to be sufficent, but I would recommend that you take advantage of all the years of coaching experience on this site and find a program already designed by one of the coaches (cosgrove, thib etc.) and progress from there.

Your diet sounds dialed on but you can always learn more from articles by Dr. Berardi. Look for the “Habits of highly effective people” and everything else that he ever wrote.

Good luck and it sounds like you are on the right path.

Are you doing full body or split?

If a split what is it?

What is your rep scheme?

Just looking at your number of movements your chest has the least amount while your bi’s have the second most.

Post some lift numbers.

1 post huh? I should have checked that first…!

You need more chest mass and less fat surrounding it.

Try doing supersets of decline dumbbell presses with decline flyes, and supersets with close grip incline barbell presses and pullovers. Finish that routine with some dips or push ups. This should build up the chest.

Thats how i built mine up, after years of bench pressing and incline pressing and avoiding other movements such as flyes; which is the basic movement of the chest(to PULL the arm across the chest), all i did was create strong delts and triceps.

The chest is a multi function muscle. Most people think of it as a PRESSING muscle. But its primary function is to PULL, although it can actually do both at the same time.

Try these to exercises to see what i mean. SLIDE PUSH UPS, DECLINE DUMBBELL PRESS FLYES

SLIDE PUSH UPS- see Chad Waterbury’s article on how to perform it.

DECLINE DUMBBELL PRESS FLYES- This is something I came up with to use both functions on the chest. Take a neutral grip on the dumbbells with the knuckles facing each other as in a flying motion and press them up. When you press them up you want to try to also pull them in. Start out wide. Use a medium weight. something lighter than what you could press for 4 sets of 8-12 reps and something heavier than you could fly for 4 sets of 8-12 reps. Try to fly the weight on the way down. The weight is usually too heavy to fly up, but you can get the negative on the fly back down.

This is the best mass builder for the chest for me. May work for you. Give it a try. I try to find movements yhat follow my bodys natural bodymovement path. Basicly press it up and fly it back down. But try to do both pressing and flying at the same time, especially on the way up, this makes the weight tough to get up if you incorporate a pulling motion on the way up instead of a pressing motion. If your doing all pressing, than you are using alot of triceps and shoulders as well.

I like to think of bench presses more as a strength movement, for it allows for maximum weight. I firmly believe you can put more strain on and more direct weight on the chest muscle itself by using less weight; still going heavy though, but you take some of the other muscles out of play and now the chest has to move all this weight itself. No help from the shoulders and triceps. IF I can Bench Press 225lbs for 8 reps, 225lbs isnt all going to the chest.

I don’t know exactly how much is, but lets just say it is less because the triceps and delts and back are taking up alot of those pounds. Thats why people can’t fly up 200 lb dumbbells, but they can bench 400 lbs. Their chest isnt benching 400lbs. Their body is benching 400lbs. I can tell you this much, I get more mass and hypertrophy from doing decline dumbbell presses and flyes than using my max weight on the benches.

Dips are nice too, but that is a whole new topic. Dips can be tricep builders or chest builders. Depends on your form and technique. Do Gironda style dips and lean foward and try PULLING the bars together and you get a chest destructive workout.

Your chest is saggy because you store alot of fat there. It doesn’t seem like you have any breast tissue. Keep working hard and when you gain more muscle and lose more fat you won’t sag as much and you will see more definition.

If all your fat comes from olive oil and peanut butter, where is your protein source coming from? Soy?

[quote]bigscarymonster wrote:
Your chest is saggy because you store alot of fat there. It doesn’t seem like you have any breast tissue. Keep working hard and when you gain more muscle and lose more fat you won’t sag as much and you will see more definition.[/quote]

Agreed. It takes a few years from where you are at now to build a full muscular chest. Keep lifting hard and mix up your chest movements with incline, flat, dumbbell and barbell movements, heavy dips. Work your back as well heavy rows, deadlifts, wide grip chins. In addition to squats and heavy shoulder presses.

Doing these compound movements and getting the corresponding nutrition will add slabs of muscle to your frame and fill in that chest as well as the rest of your body. This, again, will take a few years so be patient. You have newbie impatience where you get stunned as to why you don’t look like Arnold in less then a years time of training.

Good luck,

D

A. Eat a steak.

B. Personally, I’d ditch the cable crossovers and that other shit and just lift HARD with heavy compound movements. Look at the stuff by Waterbury or Tate.

DD

PS: How long does each workout take? It looks like you have too many exercises for each body part. You should be able to hit it hard and be out of the gym in an hour or less. Anything more and you’re probably just going through the motions and your intensity is not really as high as you think it is.

DD

Muscles contract. That is all that they are capable of doing. No muscles push.

Anyhow, If isolation is not working to your satisfaction, try more compound movements with a higher load. There are about a billion different training methods on site, so find one that suits your goal and follow it to the letter.
Or-
Flies might be o.k., but they can lead to to much tension in the pect and front delt. Be sure to ballance them out with some rowing motions of equal volume in the same plane as the fly/push movements.

saggy tits? egh, you’d need to loose weight to tighten the skin up. that’s an option; not neccesary.

when your benching: really squeeze your grip inward. your hands won’t move inward, but squeeze tight and inward; that worked alot for my chestal development.

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Muscles contract. That is all that they are capable of doing. No muscles push.

[/quote]

Muscles do the pushing or pressing. I don’t know what this guy is talking about.

To PUSH or PRESS, means to go away from the body or out.

To PULL means to move towards the body.

Try to use the chest muscles for what they were designed for and the will grow. Take the range of motion for the chest and you will feel a hard contraction as you PULL the arm across the body; which is the primary function of the chest.

Try pressing straight out and getting this kind of hard contraction without pulling the arms inward. It’s impossible. Your chest muscles run horizontally across the torso. Learn to train that way. Arnold did. Did you ever see the depth and volume of Arnold’s outer chest and how full that made his chest look. You won’t get that from benching. Use the bench press as your main strength developer for awhile. then as you notice how well your back triceps and shoulders are developed from all this benching… switch to some flys and build up the chest.

Use this formula- for strength… heavy flat and incline compound pressing.

for bulk… a little lighter but still heavy dumbbell pressing and flying and some weighted dips and pushups

for definition- try those cable crossovers and pec decks etc, once you have a massive chest.

Build some strength, then bulk it up, then detail it. You’re going in reverse. I wouldn’t do a light chest exercise for awhile, and no crossovers. Use those flyes to superset with pressing or finishers.

I went from benching 150 to 405 on this program. My bench went up big time from doing decline dumbbell flyes…Arnolds technique though- full stretch and stopping about 10-12 inches apart and keeping constant tension on the chest.


Also I’ve only been training for six months. I’m not looking for instant gains, I just want to correct my mistakes.

My numbers are…
Deadlift: 310
Bench: 240
Squat: 230

I have a knee problem where I’m not able to squat that much. About any more then that and my knee buckles.

[quote]jbodzin wrote:
If all your fat comes from olive oil and peanut butter, where is your protein source coming from? Soy?[/quote]

Outside of my protein shake, milk, steaks,tons of fish, I work at a fish market full time so I eat about a pound of fish every day. Yogurt.

Thanks again for the advice. I’ll change up my diet and fix my routine.

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Muscles do the pushing or pressing. I don’t know what this guy is talking about.
[/quote]

<-----Scratching his head.

Err…muscles dont push, they pull.

When you extend your arm at the elbow joint your triceps is pulling/contracting. When you do a biceps curl your biceps is pulling/contracting.

[quote]Diskrodia wrote:
jbodzin wrote:
If all your fat comes from olive oil and peanut butter, where is your protein source coming from? Soy?

Outside of my protein shake, milk, steaks,tons of fish, I work at a fish market full time so I eat about a pound of fish every day. Yogurt.[/quote]

Right on sounds good!

Diskrodia, wanted to add one more thing after looking at your workout program. Ditch all the curls, kick backs, cables and such. Focus on compound movements again like incline and flat bench, squats, deadlift, chins, and rows. Believe me when I tell you these exercises done with adequate weight and intensity will bring you much faster results then skull crushers, kick backs, and curls.

D

close grip bench press worked well for building up my chest.

[quote]PGA200X wrote:
Go heavy fool wrote:
Muscles do the pushing or pressing. I don’t know what this guy is talking about.

<-----Scratching his head.

Err…muscles dont push, they pull.

When you extend your arm at the elbow joint your triceps is pulling/contracting. When you do a biceps curl your biceps is pulling/contracting.[/quote]

well, the object is being pushed.

When you do a bench press. and lift the bar from the chest and extend it up in the air… you use a pushing motion, not a pulling motion right?

Am i missing something here?

When i’m doing push ups, am i now doing pull ups?