Cheney, War Criminal?

[quote]groo wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]jre67t wrote:
War crimes for what? [/quote]

Just part of the lawfare approach of the hard leftists — just make up crap, law and reason notwithstanding.

His only “crime” is daring to stand up to islamic fascism and being of the wrong political party. Islamists and political whores on the left unite to attack a common enemy.

It’s like being Jewish and refusing to have your head chopped off — that’s a war crime, too, apparently.[/quote]

The law, is the law, is the law.

Maybe you prefer elected dictators, or jackbooted thugs who make their own rules as they go along, but that does not bode well for people of your religious persuasion.

But then again, an orthodox Jew worshiping at the altar of the state, why, you exotic little butterfly you!
[/quote]
So when did the US have to follow any international law? Or any other country for that matter. If Congress doesn’t pass a law and the President stamp it backing an international measure, there is no law in the US making something illegal. Some treaties that have been ratified may have some force of US law but this is still dubious and the supreme court has refused to hear many cases on it.

This is what causes issues for example when US citizens commit sex crimes in Thailand that are not or at least at one point were not criminalized. Or how the great state of Texas used the death penalty on the Mexican national that suddenly found his Mexican citizenship at the 11th hour in a desperate attempt to save himself. International law and often crimes committed internationally have little to no standing as US law.[/quote]

First, he would not be standing in front of a US court so I fail to see the relevance of your point and second the Geneva Convention as well as the Anti Torture convention is US law.

[quote]Jewbacca wrote:

[quote]NvrTooLate wrote:

Given the leftist logic in this thread, I guess I should be brought up on charges of war crimes. [/quote]

Well, Democrat “Turbin” Durbin certainly falsely accused several Marines of war crimes for his own political gain, so, yes, you’re correctly.

(Said Marines being 100% acquited of all wrongdoing, but were incarcerated for some time, careers ruined, and I believe all left the Marine Corp. in disgust.)[/quote]

I did hear audio from a no name commentator that cornered Durbin during a press conference and really stuck it to him regarding that particular “war crimes” incident. It was awesome.

The US doesn’t recognize that International Law is some higher law than US law. This has been a consistent position that should be no surprise. A member of the executive branch presumably acting on executive orders would under US law be allowed to torture enemy combatants under current justice department interpretations. Whether or not this should be is debatable.

    The United States has consistently regarded international law and U.S. foreign relations law as overlapping side-by-side legal systems, rather than as a hierarchical system in which international law would invariably trump U.S. law in U.S. courts.  The overlap occurs when specific international law rules become incorporated into domestic law.  This can occur, for example, when a federal statute implements a treaty to which the United States is a party, or when a self-executing treaty is intended to apply in domestic law without any statutory implementation.  Because the two systems exist side-by-side, official action that is lawful under U.S. federal law (for example, action that is specifically authorized by a constitutionally-permissible Act of Congress) could be unlawful under international law (for example, if it is inconsistent with a treaty to which the United States is a party).  Conversely, official action that is consistent with international law (i.e., that is not prohibited by any applicable treaty or custom) could be unlawful under U.S. federal law (for example, if it would violate First Amendment guarantees of freedom of speech).

Also
“Congress lacks authority under Article I [of the Constitution] to set the terms and conditions under which the President may exercise his authority as Commander-in-Chief to control the conduct of operations during a war. * * * Congress may no more regulate the President’s ability to detain and interrogate enemy combatants than it may regulate his ability to direct troop movements on the battlefield.” [5]

If even Congress can’t regulate this conduct, certainly an international court wouldn’t be allowed to considering standard ratification allows actions permissible under the US constitution to any treaty agreement.

Couple of quotes that were taken from http://www.asil.org/insigh138.cfm

The US position would likely be that Cheney did nothing unconstitutional and thus nothing illegal under US law and since it doesn’t recognize international law as superior to US law in effect would likely be come get some if someone seriously wanted to get Cheney in a criminal court

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Torture? That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. Pouring water in someone’s face is torture? When we start pulling out fingernails with pliers and cutting people heads off, then we’ll be talking torture. Until the STFU.[/quote]

If it was torture when the Japanese did it to US soldiers and they were killed for it, it is torture now.

So unless you had your drowning reflex triggered and actually enjoyed it or think that Americans are higher beings that operate under different rules ( a divine mandate perhaps ?), please, STFU.[/quote]

So every Special Forces member gets “tortured” at the hands of their training officers as a standard part of their training? Bullshit! Triggering someones drowning refex isn’t torture. It may scare the shit out of them, but if that’s your idea of torture, then you are f’ing pussy.
Try reading Chapter 8 of this: HyperWar: International Military Tribunal for the Far East [Chapter 8]

This is torture. beating prisoners until they tired, then drenching them in gasoline and lighting them on fire. Raping women then cutting off their breasts. Starvation and witholding medical treatment. Locking prisoners in a building, then lighting it on fire & bayoneting any that escape. Cutting off arms and legs with a sword. Bayoneting infants in their mother’s arms. Bataan Death March. Beheadings. Forcing huge amounts of water down a POW’s throat, then jumping on his stomach. Shocking or burning sex organs. Forcing a POW to kneel with a large board behind his knees, then force his torso down, causing the knee joint to open and spread apart. Hanging from the thumbs or elbow, causing dislocation. Ripping off finger and toenails. Making POW’s beat on another. Disection while still alive. Read it, and then tell me pouring water in someones face is “torture”. You’re a joke.

You guys know orion by now, he’s a foreign ingrate who despises the US. Nothing new here.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Torture? That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. Pouring water in someone’s face is torture? When we start pulling out fingernails with pliers and cutting people heads off, then we’ll be talking torture. Until the STFU.[/quote]

If it was torture when the Japanese did it to US soldiers and they were killed for it, it is torture now.

So unless you had your drowning reflex triggered and actually enjoyed it or think that Americans are higher beings that operate under different rules ( a divine mandate perhaps ?), please, STFU.[/quote]

So every Special Forces member gets “tortured” at the hands of their training officers as a standard part of their training? Bullshit! Triggering someones drowning refex isn’t torture. It may scare the shit out of them, but if that’s your idea of torture, then you are f’ing pussy.
Try reading Chapter 8 of this: HyperWar: International Military Tribunal for the Far East [Chapter 8]

This is torture. beating prisoners until they tired, then drenching them in gasoline and lighting them on fire. Raping women then cutting off their breasts. Starvation and witholding medical treatment. Locking prisoners in a building, then lighting it on fire & bayoneting any that escape. Cutting off arms and legs with a sword. Bayoneting infants in their mother’s arms. Bataan Death March. Beheadings. Forcing huge amounts of water down a POW’s throat, then jumping on his stomach. Shocking or burning sex organs. Forcing a POW to kneel with a large board behind his knees, then force his torso down, causing the knee joint to open and spread apart. Hanging from the thumbs or elbow, causing dislocation. Ripping off finger and toenails. Making POW’s beat on another. Disection while still alive. Read it, and then tell me pouring water in someones face is “torture”. You’re a joke.[/quote]

When I read about waterboarding, I don’t cringe, constrict my facial muscles, tense up, make vocal exclamations of horror or feel the need to hurry up and get to the end of the passage. Like I did upon reading this.

I know which one I would choose, if I could be given a choice, that’s for sure.

[quote]groo wrote:
The US doesn’t recognize that International Law is some higher law than US law. This has been a consistent position that should be no surprise. A member of the executive branch presumably acting on executive orders would under US law be allowed to torture enemy combatants under current justice department interpretations. Whether or not this should be is debatable.
[/quote]

And again, it is irrelevant what the US recognizes, since no US court is going to issue a warrant for him.

And again, both the Geneva Convention and the Anti Torture Treaty ARE US law.

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Torture? That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. Pouring water in someone’s face is torture? When we start pulling out fingernails with pliers and cutting people heads off, then we’ll be talking torture. Until the STFU.[/quote]

If it was torture when the Japanese did it to US soldiers and they were killed for it, it is torture now.

So unless you had your drowning reflex triggered and actually enjoyed it or think that Americans are higher beings that operate under different rules ( a divine mandate perhaps ?), please, STFU.[/quote]

So every Special Forces member gets “tortured” at the hands of their training officers as a standard part of their training? Bullshit! Triggering someones drowning refex isn’t torture. It may scare the shit out of them, but if that’s your idea of torture, then you are f’ing pussy. [/quote]

Since this is part of the training what they are to expect when they fall into the evil enemies ™ hand, yes this is torture.

You can take it up with Jesse Ventura if you do not accept this.

Also, when it is torture when it is done to Americans, yes, it is torture when it is done by Americans.

But I am glad that someone unable to grasp thinks that I am a joke.

Strong arguments bro!

[quote]ZEB wrote:
You guys know orion by now, he’s a foreign ingrate who despises the US. Nothing new here.[/quote]

Well, you know Zeb by now, when in doubt attack the messenger.

[quote]Cortes wrote:

When I read about waterboarding, I don’t cringe, constrict my facial muscles, tense up, make vocal exclamations of horror or feel the need to hurry up and get to the end of the passage. [/quote]

Well, have it done to you dozens of times in a month and then report back if you cringe at the thought then.

If T Nation was no so reluctant to allow pictures of American heroes in action there are a few pictures on how US prisoners were treated in Iraqi and Afghani prisons.

You know, the ones Obama would not release after having promised to do so.

Apparently having a neon light bulb (amongst other things) shoved up your ass and broken inside it leaves quite the mess.

But for the more sensitive souls you dont get to see the “enhanced interrogation”, you do get to see the bloody pulp that remains though.

Look, we even had a thread about this, with pictures even:

[quote]orion wrote:

Apparently having a neon light bulb (amongst other things) shoved up your ass and broken inside it leaves quite the mess.

[/quote]

Yes, I imagine it would. Only that was never alleged. Your own link shows that the allegation is that an Egyptian American translator used an incandescent bulb to indecently assault a teenage boy. The rest is your own invention you sick puppy.

No, that’s an unrelated photograph of a pool of blood you deranged cretin.

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Torture? That’s the stupidest shit I’ve ever heard. Pouring water in someone’s face is torture? When we start pulling out fingernails with pliers and cutting people heads off, then we’ll be talking torture. Until the STFU.[/quote]

If it was torture when the Japanese did it to US soldiers and they were killed for it, it is torture now.

So unless you had your drowning reflex triggered and actually enjoyed it or think that Americans are higher beings that operate under different rules ( a divine mandate perhaps ?), please, STFU.[/quote]

So every Special Forces member gets “tortured” at the hands of their training officers as a standard part of their training? Bullshit! Triggering someones drowning refex isn’t torture. It may scare the shit out of them, but if that’s your idea of torture, then you are f’ing pussy. [/quote]

Since this is part of the training what they are to expect when they fall into the evil enemies ™ hand, yes this is torture.

You can take it up with Jesse Ventura if you do not accept this.

Also, when it is torture when it is done to Americans, yes, it is torture when it is done by Americans.

But I am glad that someone unable to grasp thinks that I am a joke.

Strong arguments bro!
[/quote]

It’s no wonder Europe has gone to shit…

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

Yes, I imagine it would. Only that was never alleged. Your own link shows that the allegation is that an Egyptian American translator used an incandescent bulb to indecently assault a teenage boy. The rest is your own invention you sick puppy.
[/quote]

well that’s so much better

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:
If it was torture when the Japanese did it to US soldiers and they were killed for it, it is torture now.
.[/quote]

There was a time when rape could result in capital punishment in the US.

I guess standards can change.

Imagine that.[/quote]

Oh yes and its so convenient when you can change them when you just got caught raping someone.

Of course, millions of useful idiots that cheer you on and defend you while you anally pile drive your victim might be quite an experience too, if you are so inclined that is. [/quote]

You sound like a whiney bitch.

You think this is all about “might makes right?”

Actually it’s about the weakling crying over sour grapes.

[/quote]

You are right, we long for the sound of crushed testicles but we are just not manly enough.

On a scale of say 1-10, how stupid would you say you are?

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

No, that’s an unrelated photograph of a pool of blood you deranged cretin.[/quote]

Totally.

Which is probably why the Spanish judiciary still waits for an answer whether an investigation will be conducted by the US because they would not want to start one on their own if there was one.

So far no response, except for the attempt of the US to have the Spanish government shut these judges up.

They had to have this whole “separation of powers” thing explained to them, the whole idea of checks and balances did not seem to register with them.

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

I am entertained at the sheer thought of it.[/quote]

The essence of Orion’s long and inglorious posting history, distilled for all to see.

[/quote]

The essence of a Chushins long and inglorious posting history, distilled for all to see.
[/quote]

Thank you.

Indeed, somebody has to point out your one-sided, anti-American bullshit.

I’ll wear that crown happily.[/quote]

I was referring to your idea of “good or bad, my country” which apparently goes as far as cheering it on as it descends to the state of a banana republic.

If he’s guilty of having anyone tortured, put him on trial. Here. Our laws, not yours. And I don’t want to ever hear you, a supporter of the ‘choice’ to execute an untold number of human lives out of sight and in the womb, pretending to have the moral high ground. Your support of murder is no less.