Cheney: No Iraq Ties to 9/11

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]borrek wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

Like I said, it was over their Nuke program. Geez. Sadamm was funding terrorism as well. I never argued it was AQ, beacause that was NOT the reason.

We have been through this a thousand times.

The point is that Iraq did not have a nuke program. Not in any way, shape, or form. Throwing Hans Blix and the IAEA out on their ass in order to posture for the international crowd doesn’t constitute a nuclear program.

I fully admit that we should have removed Saddam from power, it just didn’t have to be right then. Although, I bristle at being lied to by the government because they thought the truth was a harder sell than playing on fears. As well it should have been a harder sell, because we were already entangled in something unresolved in Afghanistan. The way I see it is that he was a destabilizing nut but Iraq should have been peripheral to our goals in Afghanistan. The early years of the Bush presidency were very cowboyish and I think that the administration got tied up in their own excitement. Their own “shock and awe” if you will.

Personally, I could have been on board with removing Saddam for the actual reasons he needed to be removed, but once lied to, I fully expected to be lied to again and again.

[/quote]

The day that a government lies its people into a war is the day that government should be removed and the heads of it prosecuted for crimes.

There’s no two ways about this. Cheney should be up for 3,000 counts of manslaughter as far as I’m concerned. George II, we’ll let him go, because in NJ we don’t execute retards.

22

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Look I agree the guy is an evil scumbag, but I don’t ever remember being sold on Iraq war because they helped plan 9-11. Why is this even newsworthy?

V

The connection to 9-11 was a major talking point in the leadup to the war. Evidently you have a short memory.

False.

Good to see you haven’t changed.

Find me a single quote of George Bush saying that saddam was in on 9/11.

Oh, good luck.

You again? Really?

How’s your “powerlifting” going you slackjawed faggot?[/quote]

Now, now, lil’ irish. I don’t think this is the place to project your fantasies.

Oh, one quote from W. would be enough.

Thanks.

Oh, the powerlifting is going well. P.R’s all over.

23

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Jeff R wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Look I agree the guy is an evil scumbag, but I don’t ever remember being sold on Iraq war because they helped plan 9-11. Why is this even newsworthy?

V

The connection to 9-11 was a major talking point in the leadup to the war. Evidently you have a short memory.

False.

Good to see you haven’t changed.

Find me a single quote of George Bush saying that saddam was in on 9/11.

Oh, good luck.

You again? Really?

How’s your “powerlifting” going you slackjawed faggot?

Now, now, lil’ irish. I don’t think this is the place to project your fantasies.

Oh, one quote from W. would be enough.

Thanks.

Oh, the powerlifting is going well. P.R’s all over.

[/quote]

LOL. Oh yea. I bet. PR’s everywhere. hahahahhahahah

24

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

Utter bs?

If you care about facts, please google al zarqawi.

Do your own research. Find out where he was wounded. Find out where he fled. Find out who was in charge of the hospitals that he was treated in. For the kicker, find out what neighbor tried to have him extradited. Then see who refused the extradition.

Again, if you care about facts.

You might open a whole new world.

JeffR

[/quote]

I’ve done my research, so now it’s your turn. Feel free to post and cite any of these so-called facts.

25

[quote]Vegita wrote:
waht wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Look I agree the guy is an evil scumbag, but I don’t ever remember being sold on Iraq war because they helped plan 9-11. Why is this even newsworthy?

V
Not exactly plan 9/11, but being linked to Al-Qaeda and other terrorist organizations.

From the Iraq Resolution:

-Members of al-Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
-Iraq’s “continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations,” including anti-United States terrorist organizations.
-The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, including the September 11th, 2001 terrorists and those who aided or harbored them.
Ofcourse this was part of multiple reasons.

Yea, The WMD was the real go getter. I mean I can still see Colin Powell at the UN with the little prop vial of white powder. The fear mongering was amazing and I for one bought into it fully. Haha Those were the days, everything seemed so clear back then. I felt like I was a crusader on a mission to crush evil! LOL what a doucher I must have been. Luckily for me, the awakening happened a little before last year. The transition was so fast and complete it was literally like wking up from a deep sleep. That world doesn’t even exist anymore, I mean it literally does not exist. Now I see a world full of people, some people have power, and some people don’t. There are those who had a lot of power who had it erode over time, and there are those that are just getting thier first tastes of power. Many of the people who we are “afraid of” people like Saddam, had thier power being drained every single passing day. Eroding due to modern times while they sat in thier palaces. They had no axe to grind, they postured to remain at the head of thier small part of the world, but they knew they could never be a threat to any of the real powers in the world.

V[/quote]

You just figured out this war was bullshit?
I mean this in all seriousness - Are you retarded?

26

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Look I agree the guy is an evil scumbag, but I don’t ever remember being sold on Iraq war because they helped plan 9-11. Why is this even newsworthy?

V

Exactly. Saddam was paying off suicide bombers in Isreal with 50k for their families…remember that? Also, couple that with blatant UN saction violations over their nuke program and biological weaponry used against it’s own people… The French and Russians were paid off by Sadamm…and THAT was the sell and reason. Never was it 9-11.

[/quote]

The Saudis also pay suicide bombers. But they are our “friends” so we dont mind. The only reason the religious nutbags came to power in the middle east was because of shit like US intervention (Iran comes to mind). There was no nuke program, so I dont see where that is coming from. Its the same crap being used in advance of our next wars. The chemical/biological weapons came from us and our allies, so how can we complain? It was cool when he was using nerve gas on its neighbor - since that was our bidding. France and Russia have way more money than Iraq, so how were they paid off?

Please, get off the Faux News talking points.

27

[quote]borrek wrote:
Jeff R wrote:

Utter bs?

If you care about facts, please google al zarqawi.

Do your own research. Find out where he was wounded. Find out where he fled. Find out who was in charge of the hospitals that he was treated in. For the kicker, find out what neighbor tried to have him extradited. Then see who refused the extradition.

Again, if you care about facts.

You might open a whole new world.

JeffR

I’ve done my research, so now it’s your turn. Feel free to post and cite any of these so-called facts. [/quote]

Not even worth talking to this fat old douchebag. Guy is worse than Headhunter. Don’t even bother.

28

[quote]UB07 wrote:
Rockscar wrote:
Vegita wrote:
Look I agree the guy is an evil scumbag, but I don’t ever remember being sold on Iraq war because they helped plan 9-11. Why is this even newsworthy?

V

Exactly. Saddam was paying off suicide bombers in Isreal with 50k for their families…remember that? Also, couple that with blatant UN saction violations over their nuke program and biological weaponry used against it’s own people… The French and Russians were paid off by Sadamm…and THAT was the sell and reason. Never was it 9-11.

The Saudis also pay suicide bombers. But they are our “friends” so we dont mind. The only reason the religious nutbags came to power in the middle east was because of shit like US intervention (Iran comes to mind). There was no nuke program, so I dont see where that is coming from. Its the same crap being used in advance of our next wars. The chemical/biological weapons came from us and our allies, so how can we complain? It was cool when he was using nerve gas on its neighbor - since that was our bidding. France and Russia have way more money than Iraq, so how were they paid off?

Please, get off the Faux News talking points. [/quote]

They were paid off in oil vouchers and being awarded contracts during the whole oil for food scandal with Iraq and the UN.

Here is another link if you are not fond of WIKI: http://www.cfr.org/publication/7631/iraq.html

As you see they were paid off and it was not just a “talking point”.

29

[quote]borrek wrote:
Jeff R wrote:

Utter bs?

If you care about facts, please google al zarqawi.

Do your own research. Find out where he was wounded. Find out where he fled. Find out who was in charge of the hospitals that he was treated in. For the kicker, find out what neighbor tried to have him extradited. Then see who refused the extradition.

Again, if you care about facts.

You might open a whole new world.

JeffR

I’ve done my research, so now it’s your turn. Feel free to post and cite any of these so-called facts. [/quote]

borrek,

I have a feeling you aren’t interested in an actual dialogue. What I can’t understand is why people on the left have so much faith in the main stream media.

My disillusionment with the msm started at W’s inauguration in 2000. We walked in front of the Supreme Court. We saw about 50 protestors surrounded by about 150 members of the press.

On the evening news that night, the press showed these protestors from about 75 angles. They overstated the number of protestors by a factor of five.

In summary, the msm agreed with the protestors and flat out mis-represented the degree of participation.

That opened my eyes in a big way.

Can’t you tell that there is an information bottle-neck? Can’t you see how their biases get in the way of information transfer?

It really does make me shake my head that you and yours have so much faith in that flawed system.

Look at some of the posts on this thread. You and others of your ilk are making definitive statements based on the conclusions drawn by the MSM. You are acting as though those conclusions are facts.

On the contrary…

If you are interested in an actual dialogue, you will re-read what I posted and answer each of those questions I posed.

Use your own sources. The problem with me doing your research, is that you will attack the sources. I want you to use your own sources.

If you take the time, I believe you will be surprised.

JeffR

30

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
borrek wrote:
Jeff R wrote:

Utter bs?

If you care about facts, please google al zarqawi.

Do your own research. Find out where he was wounded. Find out where he fled. Find out who was in charge of the hospitals that he was treated in. For the kicker, find out what neighbor tried to have him extradited. Then see who refused the extradition.

Again, if you care about facts.

You might open a whole new world.

JeffR

I’ve done my research, so now it’s your turn. Feel free to post and cite any of these so-called facts.

Not even worth talking to this fat old douchebag. Guy is worse than Headhunter. Don’t even bother.[/quote]

That wasn’t very nice.

Oh, I’m still waiting for a single quote from W. stating that Iraq was in on 9/11.

Your silence speaks volumes.

31

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
borrek wrote:
Rockscar wrote:

Like I said, it was over their Nuke program. Geez. Sadamm was funding terrorism as well. I never argued it was AQ, beacause that was NOT the reason.

We have been through this a thousand times.

The point is that Iraq did not have a nuke program. Not in any way, shape, or form. Throwing Hans Blix and the IAEA out on their ass in order to posture for the international crowd doesn’t constitute a nuclear program.

I fully admit that we should have removed Saddam from power, it just didn’t have to be right then. Although, I bristle at being lied to by the government because they thought the truth was a harder sell than playing on fears. As well it should have been a harder sell, because we were already entangled in something unresolved in Afghanistan. The way I see it is that he was a destabilizing nut but Iraq should have been peripheral to our goals in Afghanistan. The early years of the Bush presidency were very cowboyish and I think that the administration got tied up in their own excitement. Their own “shock and awe” if you will.

Personally, I could have been on board with removing Saddam for the actual reasons he needed to be removed, but once lied to, I fully expected to be lied to again and again.

The day that a government lies its people into a war is the day that government should be removed and the heads of it prosecuted for crimes.

There’s no two ways about this. Cheney should be up for 3,000 counts of manslaughter as far as I’m concerned. George II, we’ll let him go, because in NJ we don’t execute retards.[/quote]

Well, that would be just about every war.

32

American men and women are dying on foreign soil and some of you want to play the blame game??

Bottom line 9/11 scared a lot of people including those in power. Saddam was an evil man. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are groups that only destroy. We went in to assure men like them never could use WMD’s whether they had them or in 10 years could have had them.

I’ve got an idea. Instead of crying over which idiot started the war come up with a solution to the problems we face. Come up with an exit strategy or find a way to help the middle east become a productive part of the world. To say the former president is a retard is just plain ignorant and even if the Bush administration lied to us, which is speculation, it wouldn’t be the first time it’s happened.

Try and put yourselves in the shoes of Bush or a senator in the early part of this decade. What would you have done? Sat back and hoped Saddam didn’t have WMD’s or reach down, grab a set, and make sure he didn’t.

33

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
American men and women are dying on foreign soil and some of you want to play the blame game??
[/quote]
No soldier performing his or her duties is to blame, we are talking about politicians. When talking about them, its justified to determine who is to blame. Those in power should be held accountable for their actions.

[quote]
I’ve got an idea. Instead of crying over which idiot started the war come up with a solution to the problems we face. Come up with an exit strategy or find a way to help the middle east become a productive part of the world. [/quote]
Pretty straightforward, install a US-sponsored government to keep the people in check as is the case in every US-backed Middle Eastern country/dictatorship (except for Israel, which is a democracy, and Iran, which is a recalcitrant shithole).

It’s not speculation on all counts. Some have been proven to be false and even have been admitted by members of the former administration. At the least it was negligence, but i keep assuming those in the White House are smart, which would make it more plausible it was lies.

34

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
American men and women are dying on foreign soil and some of you want to play the blame game??

Bottom line 9/11 scared a lot of people including those in power. Saddam was an evil man. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are groups that only destroy. We went in to assure men like them never could use WMD’s whether they had them or in 10 years could have had them.

I’ve got an idea. Instead of crying over which idiot started the war come up with a solution to the problems we face. Come up with an exit strategy or find a way to help the middle east become a productive part of the world. To say the former president is a retard is just plain ignorant and even if the Bush administration lied to us, which is speculation, it wouldn’t be the first time it’s happened.

Try and put yourselves in the shoes of Bush or a senator in the early part of this decade. What would you have done? Sat back and hoped Saddam didn’t have WMD’s or reach down, grab a set, and make sure he didn’t. [/quote]

USMC:

For over 6 years I’ve asked for an alternative regarding Iraq.

I’ve never heard a single response worth the key strokes.

Watch what happens. These people haven’t thought it through.

Ok, no invasion. Then what? Does anyone REALLY think saddam was NOT going to restart his weapons programs? Does anyone REALLY think he wouldn’t (he was) have climbed in bed with America’s enemies? Does anyone REALLY think he was going to sit back and allow a nuclear armed iran without AT LEAST restarting his own nuclear program?

35

[quote]Jeff R wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
American men and women are dying on foreign soil and some of you want to play the blame game??

Bottom line 9/11 scared a lot of people including those in power. Saddam was an evil man. The Taliban and Al Qaeda are groups that only destroy. We went in to assure men like them never could use WMD’s whether they had them or in 10 years could have had them.

I’ve got an idea. Instead of crying over which idiot started the war come up with a solution to the problems we face. Come up with an exit strategy or find a way to help the middle east become a productive part of the world. To say the former president is a retard is just plain ignorant and even if the Bush administration lied to us, which is speculation, it wouldn’t be the first time it’s happened.

Try and put yourselves in the shoes of Bush or a senator in the early part of this decade. What would you have done? Sat back and hoped Saddam didn’t have WMD’s or reach down, grab a set, and make sure he didn’t.

USMC:

For over 6 years I’ve asked for an alternative regarding Iraq.

I’ve never heard a single response worth the key strokes.

Watch what happens. These people haven’t thought it through.

Ok, no invasion. Then what? Does anyone REALLY think saddam was NOT going to restart his weapons programs? Does anyone REALLY think he wouldn’t (he was) have climbed in bed with America’s enemies? Does anyone REALLY think he was going to sit back and allow a nuclear armed iran without AT LEAST restarting his own nuclear program?
[/quote]

Yeah I just thought I’d give it a try oh well…

I really think if we had left Saddam in power Iraq would be acting just like North Korea currently is. They’d be testing all kinds of nasty stuff, whether they can harm us or not is irrelevant, they could hurt a lot of innocent people.

I also think we should help nations that need it the best we can. The people of Iraq would have had a very difficult if not impossible time standing up to Saddam without us. The same goes for North Korea. I would not be surprised if we deployed there within a year.

36

[quote]waht wrote:
usmccds423 wrote:
American men and women are dying on foreign soil and some of you want to play the blame game??

No soldier performing his or her duties is to blame, we are talking about politicians. When talking about them, its justified to determine who is to blame. Those in power should be held accountable for their actions.

I’ve got an idea. Instead of crying over which idiot started the war come up with a solution to the problems we face. Come up with an exit strategy or find a way to help the middle east become a productive part of the world.
Pretty straightforward, install a US-sponsored government to keep the people in check as is the case in every US-backed Middle Eastern country/dictatorship (except for Israel, which is a democracy, and Iran, which is a recalcitrant shithole).
To say the former president is a retard is just plain ignorant and even if the Bush administration lied to us, which is speculation,
It’s not speculation on all counts. Some have been proven to be false and even have been admitted by members of the former administration. At the least it was negligence, but i keep assuming those in the White House are smart, which would make it more plausible it was lies.[/quote]

My problem is some people, not meaning anyone on here specifically, but some people do not distinguish between the trigger pullers and the desk jockeys is Washington. Maybe they did lie. I’m not going to act like I spend 8 hours a day researching every speech of every president so if he or his administration lied and owned up to it then yeah I’m pissed I was lied to, but I do appreciate them coming clean. I thing a U.S. backed government is good temporarily, but the U.S. shouldn’t be backing any other country long term. I think we should help liberate any nations that are being oppressed, but at the same time the people need to step up and take care of their own.

37

[quote]Jeff R wrote:

For over 6 years I’ve asked for an alternative regarding Iraq.

I’ve never heard a single response worth the key strokes.

[/quote]

And for 4 of those years I’ve been telling you that what we were doing was fine. Containment worked on the Soviet Union, it would have worked fine with Iraq- and did, from 1991-2002.

We picked on a country we knew we would win against. They have done no more or no less than Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, or any of the other countries that are thorns in the sides of America. But we picked them. Hm. Wonder why.

38

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
But we picked them. Hm. Wonder why.[/quote]

Just to piss you off man…just to piss you off.

39

[quote]Rockscar wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
But we picked them. Hm. Wonder why.

Just to piss you off man…just to piss you off.

[/quote]

I don’t doubt it.

But I would be pissed off if we invaded any country for no reason.

Except Canada. They don’t really count.

40

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Jeff R wrote:

For over 6 years I’ve asked for an alternative regarding Iraq.

I’ve never heard a single response worth the key strokes.

And for 4 of those years I’ve been telling you that what we were doing was fine. Containment worked on the Soviet Union, it would have worked fine with Iraq- and did, from 1991-2002.

We picked on a country we knew we would win against. They have done no more or no less than Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea, or any of the other countries that are thorns in the sides of America. But we picked them. Hm. Wonder why.[/quote]

irish,

I disagree that containment would have worked. It wasn’t working. The CIA released a 650,000 page document showing how many nasties saddam was cuddling up to. Not to mention there were some pretty clear signs that he was looking to light up his WMD program as the UN sanctions became increasingly less effective.

It’s both chilling in it’s implications and sad that it didn’t get more airtime (that includes from W’s Administration.)

Remember the inspectors were chucked out by saddam in 1998 and only allowed back in (in a limited way) in 2002 after the war drums/deployment were beating.

Not to mention that the mores of the soviet union and the suicide bombers/religious fanatics (Virgins in heaven/martyrdom) were quite different.

JeffR