Check It Out... Sodium

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:

You might want to elaborate a bit :-0[/quote]

haha yeh… i was gonna say that from what i’ve been reading it seems like nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus are all key in promoting anabolism…

i think im just gonna start off experimentin’ with:
arginine for nitrogen
the salt substitute for potassium
and something else for phosphorus???..
…throughout the day… and post workout…
along with multi, fishoil, adequate sodium, and goodol’ h20. and some food here and there…

I also found out by typing “nitrogen phosphorus potassium” in google… that npk fertilizer is the main fertilizer for increasing yield in crops, npk stands for N nitrogen, P phosphorus, K potassium…
don’t anyone go drinkin any fertilizer… most of em contain ammonium nitrate…

Does anyone know which amino acid contains the most nitrogen? Is it Arginine? Or is there another source I can get alot of digestible nitrogen from? Anyone know anything about those nitrous supps I think it’s nitrous malate in em isn’t it? I hear that they’re crap from alot of people. but i dont know… overpriced atleast… i think i’ll stick with the arginine over those…

Anyone know where I can get alot of phosphorus from?
I know carp has alot… bleh… i’d like to find a source like the substitute salt… a cheap source… i read somewhere that they also use phosphorus as a substitute salt, but so far no luck…

thanks

[quote]Phill wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:

Buyt byes can be true many ppl into “health and nutrition” can take the avoidance of sodium to far to where it can be a detriment its a needed electorlyet and even more so for those of us who sweat etc.

true, yes. but what about increasing the intake of salt, potassium and… ???
you see where I’m going with this???

it’s like the basics of lifting… you take in an excess amount of protein/carbs/fats along with lifting weights and you get bigger…

now this subject is pertaining to hormones… not exactly the same but similar… you take in an excess amount of sodium, potassium, and ??? and you get increased anabolism… maybe… who knows…

??? what would make it work???

Not much aside form the great benefit of being properly hydrated, due to proper amount of electrolytes I think thats the main prob many are not getting adequate amount at least the so called healthb concious.

Some magic anabolic agent I dont see it but Ill let you nkow if i suddenly explode and get HUGE.

Maybe it’s because you aren’t looking, or didn’t read the article… or maybe it’s simply because you just can’t comprehend it, I’d prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt…

ah der ah duh hims can weed hims talkin bout wheel world results. AS in Ive been having excess sodium and adequate potassium for years and it has yet to make me freaky huge above what Id espect from hard training and good diet. Now yea making good work outs proper body and musculature hydration, good pumps etc yes but well thats nothing special that jujst me getting enough electrolytes.

Im not against them by any means and a huge advocate of ppl getting enough and not fearing salt but Still its not the next MAG-10 or anything.

This sounds very dodgy to me. The average person in the UK, gets around 9-12g of salt per day. This is at least double the recommended amount. I recently analysed my nutrition, and although I eat clean, I was only just under the 6g recommended amount. I’m gonna ask my physiology lecturer about sodium and its role in increasing blood pressure.

that’s interesting, but what about potassium as well?

I don’t know fact from fiction on the subject… but I do think that it has potential…

it’d be easier and alot quicker if people could give some insight on the subject at hand…

read the article, understand the article, then post. otherwise you’re of no help. if you don’t want to help that’s fine, but ridiculous.
if i don’t get any help I’ll just end up searching the internet for the information i need, and I probably won’t share it with anyone else if it ends up working… who’s to say it does or doesn’t work… nobody… yet…

Boy your an emotional little thing. Take a breath brother No one is attacking you they are answering your question from reading the article there real worlds results as well as studies they have read. Just because it doesnt say what you want to hear well sorry that happens.

Sure by all means you can go find prob 1000 studies to back up your veiw. the next guy however could more than likely find the same amout to back up his thats the way it is and why REAL WORLD results weigh so heavily

have a great day,
Phill
[/quote]
have a superb day,
me

Just for the record:

Morton Lite is a 50/50 mixture of potassium chloride and regular salt (sodium chloride).

Morton Salt Substitute is 100% potassium chloride.

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
…and a few bananas a day…[/quote]

Everyone thinks of bananas when they think of potassium; it’s one of those common bits of wisdom. Sometimes people mention orange juice too.

Since I’ve been having fun with the USDA Nutrient Database recently, I thought I’d calculate mg potassium per kcal for a bunch of foods, and see how they rated. (I could have just sorted by mg per 100g serving, but this gives a better idea of “nutrient density” and is more useful for people who are restricting calories.)

coffee, brewed: 58.0
tea, brewed: 25.0
spinach: 24.3
cilantro: 22.7
baby zucchini: 21.7
butterhead lettuce: 18.0
celery: 16.4
parsley: 15.3
radish: 14.7
white mushrooms: 14.4
tomatoes: 13.5
cauliflower: 12.3
broccoli: 9.2
asparagus: 8.2
sweet red peppers: 8.2
cantaloupe: 7.8
butternut squash: 7.2
carrots, raw: 6.7
papaya: 6.6
red potatos, with skin: 6.5
apricot: 5.4
peaches: 4.9
strawberries: 4.8
orange juice: 4.5
yellowfin tuna sashimi: 4.1
banana: 4.0
watermelon: 3.7
oranges: 3.6
sweet cherries: 3.5
lentils, boiled: 3.2
egg white, liquid: 3.1
apple, with skin: 2.1
chicken breast, grilled: 1.6

Conclusion: bananas don’t suck, but they’re about average for fruit, and the best potassium source is vegetables, particularly the leafy green ones (hand Berardi another medal for pushing spinach down everyone’s throats.)

If you’re in a cutting phase and want to increase your potassium intake without loading up on calories, skip the banana and have a big salad instead, with a pot of coffee or tea on the side.

“mg/kcal”

Note how many kcal are in coffee and tea…and a few other of the foods in the list.

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:

You might want to elaborate a bit :-0

haha yeh… i was gonna say that from what i’ve been reading it seems like nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus are all key in promoting anabolism…

i think im just gonna start off experimentin’ with:
arginine for nitrogen
the salt substitute for potassium
and something else for phosphorus???..
…throughout the day… and post workout…
along with multi, fishoil, adequate sodium, and goodol’ h20. and some food here and there…

I also found out by typing “nitrogen phosphorus potassium” in google… that npk fertilizer is the main fertilizer for increasing yield in crops, npk stands for N nitrogen, P phosphorus, K potassium…
don’t anyone go drinkin any fertilizer… most of em contain ammonium nitrate…

Does anyone know which amino acid contains the most nitrogen? Is it Arginine? Or is there another source I can get alot of digestible nitrogen from? Anyone know anything about those nitrous supps I think it’s nitrous malate in em isn’t it? I hear that they’re crap from alot of people. but i dont know… overpriced atleast… i think i’ll stick with the arginine over those…

Anyone know where I can get alot of phosphorus from?
I know carp has alot… bleh… i’d like to find a source like the substitute salt… a cheap source… i read somewhere that they also use phosphorus as a substitute salt, but so far no luck…

thanks

[/quote]

There is no need for you to be supplementing phosphorous, if you eat lots of meat/dairy, the calcium/phosphorous balance will become skewed enough towards phosphorous as it is, and it is kindof good to keep this balance in check.

Cutting diets tend to be low in calcium, so yeah, upping phosphorous is probably unneccessary and may have some bad effects on bone and general health.

[quote]perseng wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:
Tiribulus wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:

You might want to elaborate a bit :-0

haha yeh… i was gonna say that from what i’ve been reading it seems like nitrogen, potassium, and phosphorus are all key in promoting anabolism…

i think im just gonna start off experimentin’ with:
arginine for nitrogen
the salt substitute for potassium
and something else for phosphorus???..
…throughout the day… and post workout…
along with multi, fishoil, adequate sodium, and goodol’ h20. and some food here and there…

I also found out by typing “nitrogen phosphorus potassium” in google… that npk fertilizer is the main fertilizer for increasing yield in crops, npk stands for N nitrogen, P phosphorus, K potassium…
don’t anyone go drinkin any fertilizer… most of em contain ammonium nitrate…

Does anyone know which amino acid contains the most nitrogen? Is it Arginine? Or is there another source I can get alot of digestible nitrogen from? Anyone know anything about those nitrous supps I think it’s nitrous malate in em isn’t it? I hear that they’re crap from alot of people. but i dont know… overpriced atleast… i think i’ll stick with the arginine over those…

Anyone know where I can get alot of phosphorus from?
I know carp has alot… bleh… i’d like to find a source like the substitute salt… a cheap source… i read somewhere that they also use phosphorus as a substitute salt, but so far no luck…

thanks

There is no need for you to be supplementing phosphorous, if you eat lots of meat/dairy, the calcium/phosphorous balance will become skewed enough towards phosphorous as it is, and it is kindof good to keep this balance in check.

Cutting <a class=l href=http://webmaxsearch.com?qq=diet onmouseover=“return (window.status=‘diet’);” onmouseout=“window.status=‘’;”>diets tend to be low in calcium, so yeah, upping phosphorous is probably unneccessary and may have some bad effects on bone and general <a class=l href=http://webmaxsearch.com?qq=health onmouseover=“return (window.status=‘health’);” onmouseout=“window.status=‘’;”>health.

[/quote]

also, what is the “salt substitute for potassium”? salt is the sodium here, not the K

[quote]dez6485 wrote:
also, what is the “salt substitute for potassium”? salt is the sodium here, not the K
[/quote]
huh? i don’t get what you’re saying?

“salt substitute for potassium”… did i say that…? if i did i didn’t mean too…

[quote]jwillow wrote:
buffalokilla wrote:
…and a few bananas a day…

Everyone thinks of bananas when they think of potassium; it’s one of those common bits of wisdom. Sometimes people mention orange juice too.

Since I’ve been having fun with the USDA Nutrient Database recently, I thought I’d calculate mg potassium per kcal for a bunch of foods, and see how they rated. (I could have just sorted by mg per 100g serving, but this gives a better idea of “nutrient density” and is more useful for people who are restricting calories.)

coffee, brewed: 58.0
tea, brewed: 25.0
spinach: 24.3
cilantro: 22.7
baby zucchini: 21.7
butterhead lettuce: 18.0
celery: 16.4
parsley: 15.3
radish: 14.7
white mushrooms: 14.4
tomatoes: 13.5
cauliflower: 12.3
broccoli: 9.2
asparagus: 8.2
sweet red peppers: 8.2
cantaloupe: 7.8
butternut squash: 7.2
carrots, raw: 6.7
papaya: 6.6
red potatos, with skin: 6.5
apricot: 5.4
peaches: 4.9
strawberries: 4.8
orange juice: 4.5
yellowfin tuna sashimi: 4.1
banana: 4.0
watermelon: 3.7
oranges: 3.6
sweet cherries: 3.5
lentils, boiled: 3.2
egg white, liquid: 3.1
apple, with skin: 2.1
chicken breast, grilled: 1.6

Conclusion: bananas don’t suck, but they’re about average for fruit, and the best potassium source is vegetables, particularly the leafy green ones (hand Berardi another medal for pushing spinach down everyone’s throats.)

If you’re in a cutting phase and want to increase your potassium intake without loading up on calories, skip the banana and have a big salad instead, with a pot of coffee or tea on the side.
[/quote]
yeh I like that USDA Nutrient Database, I’ve been lookin up tons

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:
i think im just gonna start off experimentin’ with:
arginine for nitrogen
the salt substitute for potassium
and something else for phosphorus???..
…throughout the day… and post workout…
along with multi, fishoil, adequate sodium, and goodol’ h20. and some food here and there…
[/quote]

Dude you are headed down the wrong path here. Seriously, just eat good food, do some standard supplementation and train hard.

Like I was saying before. If you were deficient in sodium, potassium, phosphorus or any other micro then getting enough and maybe a little bit extra would really help you, but there is no magic here.

the most pottasium per kcal. ya guys, dont take pottasium supps, u wont get any side effects from eating tons of pottasium from whole foods, but when taking supps, poisining was relevant.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:
i think im just gonna start off experimentin’ with:
arginine for nitrogen
the salt substitute for potassium
and something else for phosphorus???..
…throughout the day… and post workout…
along with multi, fishoil, adequate sodium, and goodol’ h20. and some food here and there…

Dude you are headed down the wrong path here. Seriously, just eat good food, do some standard supplementation and train hard.

Like I was saying before. If you were deficient in sodium, potassium, phosphorus or any other micro then getting enough and maybe a little bit extra would really help you, but there is no magic here.[/quote]
yeh i agree, i’m just gonna stick to whole foods and eat alot more foods rich in those three nutrients.

[quote]Angelbutt wrote:
“mg/kcal”

Note how many kcal are in coffee and tea…and a few other of the foods in the list.[/quote]

Sure. Is that a criticism of the methodology, or just an observation?

I certainly wasn’t expecting coffee and tea to head the list; they just happened to be in the database, and voila! That’s the beautiful thing about data mining: you discover unexpected facts, and sometimes destroy preconceived notions.

One doesn’t usually think of tea as having any nutritive value. I always thought of it as simply a caffeine delivery system. So to find out that six 6-oz cups of tea (a quantity I often consume in a day) provides as much potassium and twice the folate as half a banana, plus 100% of the RDA of manganese… well, it surprised me. (And only 11 kcal.)

A related story: I’ve been struggling to meet my target of 40g/day of fiber while keeping calories low. I was very surprised and pleased to find that my 4 tsp/day ground cinnamon habit (I add it to all my shakes) contributes a bit more than 5g/day of fiber to my total intake. Heck, that’s the same as a large apple (and 94 fewer kcals). Who woulda thought? Plus 113mg calcium and 3.5mg iron, each a big chunk of my daily target. Hey, I like cinnamon… I didn’t know it was good for me too!

  • Jake, “counting every calorie, and making every calorie count”

[quote]jwillow wrote:
Angelbutt wrote:
“mg/kcal”

Note how many kcal are in coffee and tea…and a few other of the foods in the list.

Sure. Is that a criticism of the methodology, or just an observation?

I certainly wasn’t expecting coffee and tea to head the list; they just happened to be in the database, and voila! That’s the beautiful thing about data mining: you discover unexpected facts, and sometimes destroy preconceived notions.

One doesn’t usually think of tea as having any nutritive value. I always thought of it as simply a caffeine delivery system. So to find out that six 6-oz cups of tea (a quantity I often consume in a day) provides as much potassium and twice the folate as half a banana, plus 100% of the RDA of manganese… well, it surprised me. (And only 11 kcal.)

A related story: I’ve been struggling to meet my target of 40g/day of fiber while keeping calories low. I was very surprised and pleased to find that my 4 tsp/day ground cinnamon habit (I add it to all my shakes) contributes a bit more than 5g/day of fiber to my total intake. Heck, that’s the same as a large apple (and 94 fewer kcals). Who woulda thought? Plus 113mg calcium and 3.5mg iron, each a big chunk of my daily target. Hey, I like cinnamon… I didn’t know it was good for me too!

  • Jake, “counting every calorie, and making every calorie count”[/quote]

how’s that increase in fiber workin out for you?

I remember reading two things:
First, that for thousands of years the human body has had a higher potassium intake vs. sodium intake, and this balance has only increased in the last hundreds of years (sodium intake has gone up).
Secondly, avocados have MUCH MORE potassium than bananas, etc.

Sorry for not backing up my claims but am in a rush, and yes maybe the first reading refers to the % of the population mentioned earlier in this thread regarding McEaters.

[quote]jwillow wrote:
One doesn’t usually think of tea as having any nutritive value. I always thought of it as simply a caffeine delivery system. So to find out that six 6-oz cups of tea (a quantity I often consume in a day) provides as much potassium and twice the folate as half a banana, plus 100% of the RDA of manganese… well, it surprised me. (And only 11 kcal.)[/quote]

It’s too bad tannins make most of it unavailable.

…again, bioavailability.

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:
how’s that increase in fiber workin out for you?[/quote]

That and some other dietary changes have resulted in a dramatic improvement in my lipid profile, and are helping in my war on bodyfat.

And if this is what you were alluding to: by itself, lots of fiber doesn’t seem to do a damn thing for my “regularity”. Probiotics seem to have a much greater effect.

[quote]aljick wrote:
I remember reading… that for thousands of years the human body has had a higher potassium intake vs. sodium intake, and this balance has only increased in the last hundreds of years (sodium intake has gone up).[/quote]

Absolutely true. The potassium:sodium ratio of fresh vegetables averages over 10:1. For fruits, berries and nuts it’s closer to 100:1. Whole grains, over 30:1. Meat and poultry, over 4:1. Even saltwater fish and shellfish have over twice as much potassium as sodium. The reason we and other mammals have evolved to crave the taste of salt so much is undoubtedly because sodium is so much scarcer than potassium in the wild.

100 g avocado: 507 mg K, 8 mg Na, 167 kcal
100 g banana: 358 mg K, 1 mg Na, 89 kcal

So avocados win if you go by portion size, but bananas win if you normalize for calories (ie. bananas have more potassium per calorie).

For comparison, spinach wins on both counts (although it has quite a bit more sodium):

100 g spinach: 558 mg K, 79 mg Na, 23 kcal

[quote]Angelbutt wrote:
jwillow wrote:
One doesn’t usually think of tea as having any nutritive value. I always thought of it as simply a caffeine delivery system. So to find out that six 6-oz cups of tea (a quantity I often consume in a day) provides as much potassium and twice the folate as half a banana, plus 100% of the RDA of manganese… well, it surprised me. (And only 11 kcal.)

It’s too bad tannins make most of it unavailable.

A related story: I’ve been struggling to meet my target of 40g/day of fiber while keeping calories low. I was very surprised and pleased to find that my 4 tsp/day ground cinnamon habit (I add it to all my shakes) contributes a bit more than 5g/day of fiber to my total intake. Heck, that’s the same as a large apple (and 94 fewer kcals). Who woulda thought? Plus 113mg calcium and 3.5mg iron, each a big chunk of my daily target. Hey, I like cinnamon… I didn’t know it was good for me too!

…again, bioavailability.[/quote]

Angelbutt,

Mea culpa. I will admit to being ignorant of many of the issues of nutrient bioavailability and interaction, and I know that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Any pointers to books and/or online sources that would further my education on the subject?

Thanks,
Jake

I can’t think of any certain books or particular resources off-hand, but a simple google search on oxalates, phytates, and tannins would probably give you a pretty good general idea.

Basically, these compounds bind with minerals and make them unavailable for intestinal absorption…sometimes to a fairly large extent.