T Nation

Check It Out... Sodium

this guy seems like he knows his shhtuff
SALTY!!!

http://www.chemo.net/sodium-.htm

what do you think? maybe there’s an article on this that I missed…?

Might be a good idea if you are eating completely clean, but I think it’d be irrelevant if you ever eat a processed meal, go to a restaurant or drink a diet soda.

Yeah, you’d have to try fairly hard to be actually deficient in sodium though a clean diet can get pretty low. From what I’ve read the info in this article is correct except that I thought steroids main plus was it’s effects on nitrogen.

A bigger concern, though still a smallish one for people eating a sound diet would be getting enough potassium.

Overall I like it. Sodium like so many other “evil” substances has gotten a bad wrap in recent decades.

Going from actually deficient to adequate would probably bring a noticeable effect, but even eggs, meat and canned fish etc. should provide enough to avoid deficiency in most cases.

I recently did a very detailed analysis of the diet I’m currently on, using the USDA Nutrient Database ( http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/ ).

On this very clean, low-calorie (1571 kcal/day) diet, I’m getting 4409 mg potassium and 2413 mg sodium per day.

The major sodium sources are:
tuna, one 6 oz can: 648 mg
lowfat cottage cheese, 4 oz: 480 mg
egg white, 8 oz: 403 mg
sardines, one 3.75 oz can: 200 mg
Biotest Surge, one serving: 200 mg
fresh spinach, 6 oz: 135 mg

If you avoided eggs, dairy and all canned food, you could probably wind up with a sodium deficiency. Fresh produce (with the exception of eggs) is very low in sodium. For example:

4 oz fresh meat, poultry: 43 to 75 mg
4 oz fresh vegetables: 1 to 108 mg
4 oz fresh fruit, berries: 0 to 20 mg

Just to put this in perspective, a single McDonald’s Grilled Chicken Classic Sandwich has 1237 mg of sodium… and that’s one of the healthiest choices on their menu. The average couch potato has a lot of things to worry about, but a sodium deficiency is not one of them.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
From what I’ve read the info in this article is correct except that I thought steroids main plus was it’s effects on nitrogen.

Going from actually deficient to adequate would probably bring a noticeable effect, but even eggs, meat and canned fish etc. should provide enough to avoid deficiency in most cases.[/quote]

Yeh that steroid bit was interesting.

What about upping potassium and sodium. Taking in an excess amount of both. Anyone know anything about that? I wonder if there’s a way to increase natural aldosterone production? Vitex? Tribulus? …Cholesterol? If you found a way to up aldosterone, sodium, and potassium I bet that’d do you some justice. Or maybe just flooding the body with sodium and potassium would cause the body to adapt? As long as it had the necessary building blocks maybe that’d work? I don’t know, just some thoughts.

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I eat prob a LB of salt a week in the form of adding it to food I should be friggin HUGE LOL

Buyt byes can be true many ppl into “health and nutrition” can take the avoidance of sodium to far to where it can be a detriment its a needed electorlyet and even more so for those of us who sweat etc.

Some magic anabolic agent I dont see it but Ill let you nkow if i suddenly explode and get HUGE.

Phill

true, yes. but what about increasing the intake of salt, potassium and… ???
you see where I’m going with this???

it’s like the basics of lifting… you take in an excess amount of protein/carbs/fats along with lifting weights and you get bigger…

now this subject is pertaining to hormones… not exactly the same but similar… you take in an excess amount of sodium, potassium, and ??? and you get increased anabolism… maybe… who knows…

??? what would make it work???

Maybe it’s because you aren’t looking, or didn’t read the article… or maybe it’s simply because you just can’t comprehend it, I’d prefer to give you the benefit of the doubt…

that’s interesting, but what about potassium as well?

I don’t know fact from fiction on the subject… but I do think that it has potential…

it’d be easier and alot quicker if people could give some insight on the subject at hand…

read the article, understand the article, then post. otherwise you’re of no help. if you don’t want to help that’s fine, but ridiculous.
if i don’t get any help I’ll just end up searching the internet for the information i need, and I probably won’t share it with anyone else if it ends up working… who’s to say it does or doesn’t work… nobody… yet…

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:
…but what about increasing the intake of salt, potassium and… ???
you see where I’m going with this???..[/quote]

I’d be really careful with that as electrolytic minerals do have a toxic level low enough to be reachable by a sufficiently enthusiastic supplement addict if I remember right.

I think like 10 grams of potassium is cardiac shutdown territory. It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure it was right in there.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Inmate102086 wrote:
…but what about increasing the intake of salt, potassium and… ???
you see where I’m going with this???..

I’d be really careful with that as electrolytic minerals do have a toxic level low enough to be reachable by a sufficiently enthusiastic supplement addict if I remember right.

I think like 10 grams of potassium is cardiac shutdown territory. It’s been a while, but I’m pretty sure it was right in there.[/quote]

oh man, good to know, that’s really interesting, anyone else know anything about this?

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:
oh man, good to know, that’s really interesting, anyone else know anything about this?[/quote]

http://www.food.gov.uk/multimedia/pdfs/evm_potassium.pdf

Try this. It’s all I could find right off, but does have some info on toxicity and electrolyte balance. It also does corroborate my recollection of cardiac arrest being a consequence of acute potassium poisoning albeit elderly people being the most common victims.

Probably, I’m guessing through accidental ingestion of prescription supps for cardio vascular symptoms.

Yes, both aspects are true: it’s better for athletes to not keep sodium as low as some try (fearing anything over 2 grams and maybe even fearing that) with probably 4 grams being a good figure.

And also that while potassium should be adequate, it MUST NOT be excessive at any one time. It is for this reason that you cannot buy a potassium supplement as a standalone nutritional supplement.

(You can however buy Morton Lite salt.)

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Yes, both aspects are true: it’s better for athletes to not keep sodium as low as some try (fearing anything over 2 grams and maybe even fearing that) with probably 4 grams being a good figure.

And also that while potassium should be adequate, it MUST NOT be excessive at any one time. It is for this reason that you cannot buy a potassium supplement as a standalone nutritional supplement.

(You can however buy Morton Lite salt.)[/quote]

That’s been another one of the idiotic media blitzes of the last 30 or 40 years that I still hear all the time.

Most Americans do get too much sodium, but even worse is the lack of potassium through the steady diet of nutrient depleted processed crap.

It’s the balance between the two that’s key. The good news is if you just eat good food it’s pretty easy to get plenty.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
While potassium should be adequate, it MUST NOT be excessive at any one time. It is for this reason that you cannot buy a potassium supplement as a standalone nutritional supplement.[/quote]

Actually, you can. For example, Twinlab Potassium Caps. But OTC potassium supplements are limited by law to 99 mg per capsule/tablet.

[quote]jwillow wrote:
Bill Roberts wrote:
While potassium should be adequate, it MUST NOT be excessive at any one time. It is for this reason that you cannot buy a potassium supplement as a standalone nutritional supplement.

Actually, you can. For example, Twinlab Potassium Caps. But OTC potassium supplements are limited by law to 99 mg per capsule/tablet.[/quote]

Yeah, even Sam’s Club has em, but I still wouldn’t put it past some guys to eat enough of these to kill themselves.

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:
[/quote]

You might want to elaborate a bit :-0

[quote]jwillow wrote:
Actually, you can. For example, Twinlab Potassium Caps. But OTC potassium supplements are limited by law to 99 mg per capsule/tablet.[/quote]

Note how little of the RDA that actually is though.

I’ve found a little extra salt (a couple shakes here and there) and a few bananas a day keeps me feeling good. Like was said, though, these aren’t a more is better thing. There’s a definate saturation point where more is bad. I’d agree with the above figures more or less for a very active person.

-Dan

That is, assuming no problem with aldosterone regulation or the renin-angiotensin system. I forget the exact number, but for around 15% of the population, eating more salt WILL directly raise blood pressure.

-Dan

[quote]Inmate102086 wrote:

Buyt byes can be true many ppl into “health and nutrition” can take the avoidance of sodium to far to where it can be a detriment its a needed electorlyet and even more so for those of us who sweat etc.

true, yes. but what about increasing the intake of salt, potassium and… ???
you see where I’m going with this???

it’s like the basics of lifting… you take in an excess amount of protein/carbs/fats along with lifting weights and you get bigger…

now this subject is pertaining to hormones… not exactly the same but similar… you take in an excess amount of sodium, potassium, and ??? and you get increased anabolism… maybe… who knows…

??? what would make it work???
[/quote]

Not much aside form the great benefit of being properly hydrated, due to proper amount of electrolytes I think thats the main prob many are not getting adequate amount at least the so called healthb concious.

ah der ah duh hims can weed hims talkin bout wheel world results. AS in Ive been having excess sodium and adequate potassium for years and it has yet to make me freaky huge above what Id espect from hard training and good diet. Now yea making good work outs proper body and musculature hydration, good pumps etc yes but well thats nothing special that jujst me getting enough electrolytes.

Im not against them by any means and a huge advocate of ppl getting enough and not fearing salt but Still its not the next MAG-10 or anything.

[quote]
This sounds very dodgy to me. The average person in the UK, gets around 9-12g of salt per day. This is at least double the recommended amount. I recently analysed my nutrition, and although I eat clean, I was only just under the 6g recommended amount. I’m gonna ask my physiology lecturer about sodium and its role in increasing blood pressure.

that’s interesting, but what about potassium as well?

I don’t know fact from fiction on the subject… but I do think that it has potential…

it’d be easier and alot quicker if people could give some insight on the subject at hand…

read the article, understand the article, then post. otherwise you’re of no help. if you don’t want to help that’s fine, but ridiculous.
if i don’t get any help I’ll just end up searching the internet for the information i need, and I probably won’t share it with anyone else if it ends up working… who’s to say it does or doesn’t work… nobody… yet…[/quote]

Boy your an emotional little thing. Take a breath brother No one is attacking you they are answering your question from reading the article there real worlds results as well as studies they have read. Just because it doesnt say what you want to hear well sorry that happens.

Sure by all means you can go find prob 1000 studies to back up your veiw. the next guy however could more than likely find the same amout to back up his thats the way it is and why REAL WORLD results weigh so heavily

have a great day,
Phill

[quote]buffalokilla wrote:
That is, assuming no problem with aldosterone regulation or the renin-angiotensin system. I forget the exact number, but for around 15% of the population, eating more salt WILL directly raise blood pressure.

-Dan[/quote]

Ture that Im in the lucky 85% can eat a damn lb a day and have BP verging on to low. bring on the salt :slight_smile:

But sure those few they should watch the salt the majority Nope IMO and can benefit from adequate or even a bit excess IF they are active and health concious.

Phill