Cheating for Max Strength Gains?

Max strength gains as in increase in 1RM.

By cheating,I mean you can jerk the weights somewhat(not a lot though) to lift it up.

What do you think of this notion?

You’re talking about deadlift? What lift are you talking about?

Lets say for bent over row? You use some hip movement to jerk the weight up?

In general cheating when training the smaller muscles (like biceps or shoulders) is okay because then you are using larger muscles to “spot” the smaller muscles, just don’t go crazy with it and be honest with yourself about your form. But cheating when you are training your largest muscles, like when you do a bench, squat or deadlift, is not a good idea because the only way to cheat is to alter your form and try to change your biomechanics which could lead to injury. That is my opinion anyway.

I think a little leg drive in the bent over row is okay. If you feel like it is adding to your ability to target and fatigue the muscle, it is probably okay. If you feel like it is taking emphasis off the muscle you want to hit, then it is probably not so good (or if it puts you in an unsafe position).

Hypertrophy does not come into the picture here at all by the way.

Cheating is like accomodating resistance. It allows you to blast through that sticking point and have higher tension at your strongest point.

I’m guessing that bouncing at the bottom of the bench press fits into this category. It might help a bit just because you get used to handling heavier weights, and when you go back to touch-and-go or pause benching the weight feels lighter and/or your more confident while holding the weight.

But on the other hand, the bottom portion of the bench press is the sticking point for a lot of people, so you could say that taking emphasis off of the bottom of the lift by bouncing the weight off the chest is a big no-no, saying that you are only as strong as your weakest muscle, or in this case, your weakest part of the lift. I gotta say that I’m looking forward to other people’s thoughts on the subject.

I don’t see why you would Max out on Bent Over Rows. In a heavy Bent Over Row your back won’t stay at a locked angle and in order to get the best stretch you should be rocking a tiny bit in my opinion.

But why do singles for Bent-Over Rows?
Cleans, Snatches, Deadlift Variations, and Weighted Chins are good movements you could do for Max Effort Work without cheating.

By all means you should go for PRs on your Rows, but you’ll be better off going for 10RMs.
For how much cheating should be allowed in Bent Over Rows, I’d say as much as you see the pros do it.

But if you’re Maxing out, I’d limit your Max Effort Work (Singles, Doubles, and Triples) to…

Bench Variations
Squat Variations
Deadlift Variations
Snatch
Clean
Clean & Jerk
Military Press
C.O.C Grippers
Weighted Chin-ups
Weighted Dips
Power Squat Machine
Hammer-Strength Lineman Machine

I can’t really think of any other moves that you should max out on. That list pretty much tests and exercises everything. I guess you could toss in strongman events but then you’re just changing the impliments that you’re performing the exercises with (Trading a Barbell for a Tire or a Log).

Doing 5RMs on Rows and Chins Seems like a good idea.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
I don’t see why you would Max out on Bent Over Rows. In a heavy Bent Over Row your back won’t stay at a locked angle and in order to get the best stretch you should be rocking a tiny bit in my opinion.

[/quote]

I max out on Pendlay rows all the time. I max out on bench a lot, and I don’t want to develop (or worsen) any strength imbalances, so I try to train my rows with as much intensity as I train my bench. With Pendlay rows, it’s easier to keep your back locked, because you start each lift from the floor.

On heavier sets of rows, I’m not sure how much “air hump” is allowed. I’ve never seen any vids of someone doing heavy Pendlay rows.

I really don’t think Pendlay Rows are that much different from Normal Barbell Rows. But whatever works for you.

Personally I would have a hard time not cheating in rows for Singles as the weights got heavier. In order to do ME work on my Back I’ve been sticking to weighted chin-ups. Once you have more than 45lbs on a Dip Belt, you can’t really do a kipping pull-up anymore so my ability to cheat is eliminated.

Not really directly related, but it sort of could be is something I said in my log last week…

"I’m trying to work my way back up on chins. It’s a while since I did them and I’m a whole lot heavier now, they’re coming back tho.

And the curls… I was talking to one of the competitive BB’ers in the gym today, know for his back development, and he said the best results and heaviest rows he ever did were done while he was doing “power” curls 80-90kg (pretty much bodyweight), he said form was very loose on them, but all the reps were controlled down and he reckons the extra bicep strength really helped him push his back up to the next level. So yeah… that’s what I was doing today. They had a tiny bit of hip drive, but were super strict by normal gym standards!!"

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
I can’t really think of any other moves that you should max out on. That list pretty much tests and exercises everything. I guess you could toss in strongman events but then you’re just changing the impliments that you’re performing the exercises with (Trading a Barbell for a Tire or a Log).

Doing 5RMs on Rows and Chins Seems like a good idea.

[/quote]

You forgot your avatar buddy - curls are fine to max on or at least go real heavy for low reps if you are so inclined.

I remember reading somewhere once that Ed Coan pulls his rows from the floor for each rep- so that each one sort of starts like a stiff-leg deadlift- working up to 500-600 for low rep sets.

[quote]Tim Henriques wrote:

You forgot your avatar buddy - curls are fine to max on or at least go real heavy for low reps if you are so inclined.[/quote]

I stand by what I said. Those are obviously fake plates. If Arnold can curl over 500 pounds then he should have been crowned King of the World.

Low Rep curls are alright. By low reps I mean 6.

But lets not go any farther than that. First you start doing curls for triples and singles. Then you tread into the territory of saying it’s OK to do Squat Rack Curls, that training with the 21 method is the best way to develop strength, that the Westside Template should be changed to include curls, and a bunch of other rubbish. Before you know it you’re putting bands on the curl bar and chalking up before you head over to the preacher curl station.

[quote]Pinto wrote:
I remember reading somewhere once that Ed Coan pulls his rows from the floor for each rep- so that each one sort of starts like a stiff-leg deadlift- working up to 500-600 for low rep sets. [/quote]

But does he max on rows?

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Tim Henriques wrote:

You forgot your avatar buddy - curls are fine to max on or at least go real heavy for low reps if you are so inclined.

I stand by what I said. Those are obviously fake plates. If Arnold can curl over 500 pounds then he should have been crowned King of the World.

Low Rep curls are alright. By low reps I mean 6.

But lets not go any farther than that. First you start doing curls for triples and singles. Then you tread into the territory of saying it’s OK to do Squat Rack Curls, that training with the 21 method is the best way to develop strength, that the Westside Template should be changed to include curls, and a bunch of other rubbish. Before you know it you’re putting bands on the curl bar and chalking up before you head over to the preacher curl station.[/quote]

There are PL meets which has a strict curl lift.

OMG, I’m starting it… OK time to stop.

[quote]FightingScott wrote:
Pinto wrote:
I remember reading somewhere once that Ed Coan pulls his rows from the floor for each rep- so that each one sort of starts like a stiff-leg deadlift- working up to 500-600 for low rep sets.

But does he max on rows?[/quote]

Who knows. But the point is that by using some body english to get the weight moving, you can handle more weight, and your upper back will get stronger. In turn you will be able to handle more weight/reps

When it comes down to it, if you’re looking to increase your squat, bench or deadlift then you shouldn’t really give a shit whether or not you cheat on your assitance lifts as long as the big 3 are going up.

Once you’re doing all the assitance work in a safe manner, if it’s successfully pushing your core lifts up then it’s doing it’s job!!

If driving a few reps on your rows makes your upper back stronger then it’s not something you should avoid doing imo.

I think Matt K is a great example of this, but I know a lot of the keyboard warriors don’t like him since his chins, rows and curls aren’t “strict”.

[quote]undeadlift wrote:

There are PL meets which has a strict curl lift.

OMG, I’m starting it… OK time to stop.[/quote]

I think they’re more prevalent in the south.