T Nation

Chavez and Big Oil

Has anyone read how Chavez has taken over it’s oil fields from big oil. Man, he’s really pissing off corporations! Get ready for the barrage of corporate propaganda! It’s almost too easy to call.

Umm… Chavez is an asshole who’s interfering in free trade.

Big Oil Corps have a right to be pissed off. Why the hell shouldn’t they be pissed?

Chavez is an asshole who is not only a horrible leader to his people, but a giant douche for calling our President the devil in the UN. Every world leader deserves some respect in the UN, and Chavez far crossed the line between light mocking and insult.

I hope Big Oil smashes this back into Chavez’s face.

How fascinating that Zep the Hater of Authority would champion Chavez, who is making his country look more and more like a Reich every day.

All the steps Chavez does are very similar to those taken by Hitler in 1933. Luckily, Venezuela isn’t a modern industrialized nation.

With his move to full Socialism, you can be sure that the people there will soon be going hungry and doing without, while that scum visits his Swiss chalet with his $100,000 month rent-a-whore.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Chavez is an asshole who is not only a horrible leader to his people, but a giant douche for calling our President the devil in the UN. [/quote]

Axis of evil, anyone?

Well, unless the US bombs the hell out of Venezuela, Chavez’s actions will remain to have high popularity.

A US-backed coup might also be a solution. Oh, wait, you already tried that. Nevermind…

[quote]lixy wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Chavez is an asshole who is not only a horrible leader to his people, but a giant douche for calling our President the devil in the UN.

Axis of evil, anyone?

I hope Big Oil smashes this back into Chavez’s face.

Well, unless the US bombs the hell out of Venezuela, Chavez’s actions will remain to have high popularity.

A US-backed coup might also be a solution. Oh, wait, you already tried that. Nevermind…[/quote]

Chuckle if you will but Chavez sees that the police (the USA) are busy rounding up scum in Iraq and is taking advantage. His turn WILL come…

If we ever had ANY action against Chavez it would never be becasue of its oil. It would be to liberate its people and restore our vision of democracy.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Chavez is an asshole who is not only a horrible leader to his people, but a giant douche for calling our President the devil in the UN.

Axis of evil, anyone?

I hope Big Oil smashes this back into Chavez’s face.

Well, unless the US bombs the hell out of Venezuela, Chavez’s actions will remain to have high popularity.

A US-backed coup might also be a solution. Oh, wait, you already tried that. Nevermind…[/quote]

Did I say Bush wasn’t as asshole too?

Hes moving farther and farther away from a society based on liberty.

I don’t want to bomb Venezuela. Or even attack it. This guy brought it up.

Chavez is not a hero. He’s an asshole.

Bush is not a hero. He’s an asshole.

Happy?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If we ever had ANY action against Chavez it would never be becasue of its oil. It would be to liberate its people and restore our vision of democracy.[/quote]

LOL!

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Umm… Chavez is an asshole who’s interfering in free trade.

Big Oil Corps have a right to be pissed off. Why the hell shouldn’t they be pissed?

Chavez is an asshole who is not only a horrible leader to his people, but a giant douche for calling our President the devil in the UN. Every world leader deserves some respect in the UN, and Chavez far crossed the line between light mocking and insult.

I hope Big Oil smashes this back into Chavez’s face.[/quote]

Why should big oil have a right to be pissed? They are in someone else’s country extracting the inhabitants resources.

Corporate media focused on that 1 minute blurb about Chavez calling Bush the devil. Big deal! Why didn’t they focus on the heart of his speech? Because there were plenty of delegates clapping during his speech? Because it may have showed Chavez in a different light than most Americans are used to seeing?

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
How fascinating that Zep the Hater of Authority would champion Chavez, who is making his country look more and more like a Reich every day.[/quote]

You must have him confused with Bush.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
If we ever had ANY action against Chavez it would never be becasue of its oil. It would be to liberate its people and restore our vision of democracy.[/quote]

Oh yeah… just like Iraq! Too funny man, too funny…

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
lixy wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Chavez is an asshole who is not only a horrible leader to his people, but a giant douche for calling our President the devil in the UN.

Axis of evil, anyone?

I hope Big Oil smashes this back into Chavez’s face.

Well, unless the US bombs the hell out of Venezuela, Chavez’s actions will remain to have high popularity.

A US-backed coup might also be a solution. Oh, wait, you already tried that. Nevermind…

Chuckle if you will but Chavez sees that the police (the USA) are busy rounding up scum in Iraq and is taking advantage. His turn WILL come…

[/quote]

Why do you think “his time” is coming?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
All the steps Chavez does are very similar to those taken by Hitler in 1933. Luckily, Venezuela isn’t a modern industrialized nation.

With his move to full Socialism, you can be sure that the people there will soon be going hungry and doing without, while that scum visits his Swiss chalet with his $100,000 month rent-a-whore.[/quote]

You might want to alert the population that keeps voting him in office that they are going to starve soon.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Chavez is not a hero. He’s an asshole.

Bush is not a hero. He’s an asshole.

Happy?[/quote]

Not really. Chavez is a hero for standing up to the Goliath of the north, for reviving hope in the continent of a unified Latin-America (like the EU), for giving a voice to the poor, for getting his country out of the grip of the IMF/World Bank, and for paying off the debts of many others countries.

You can’t challenge that.

He turned into an asshole after the US-backed coup. I mean, when you have guns pointed at you, private media outlets publicly supporting the coup and Washington being the first to congratulate the “new government of Venezuela”, you’ll probably turn radical as well.

But I’m not excusing his asshole-ness here, merely providing context. When the main plotter (C. Ortega) was received by the white house two days prior to the coup you must start asking questions. Chavez’s response was actually very tempered. Anyone else would have imprisoned Ortega and banned his media empire from operating. But, he didn’t and you got to give him credit for that.

For those who still think the US didn’t back the coup, read on this excerpt from the Wiki.

[i]"After Ch?vez resumed his presidency in April 2002, he claimed that a plane with U.S. registration numbers had visited and been berthed at Venezuela’s Orchila Island airbase, where Ch?vez had been held captive. On May 14, 2002, Ch?vez alleged that he had definitive proof of U.S. military involvement in April’s coup. He claimed that during the coup Venezuelan radar images had indicated the presence of U.S. military naval vessels and aircraft in Venezuelan waters and airspace. The Guardian published a claim by former US intelligence officer Wayne Madsen alleging U.S. Navy involvement.[43] U.S. Senator Christopher Dodd, D-CT, requested an investigation of concerns that Washington appeared to condone the removal of Mr Ch?vez,[44][45] which subsequently found that “U.S. officials acted appropriately and did nothing to encourage an April coup against Venezuela’s president,” nor did they provide any naval logistical support.[46][47] According to Democracy Now!, CIA documents indicate that the Bush administration knew about a plot weeks before the April 2002 military coup. They cite a document dated 6 April 2002, which says: “dissident military factions… are stepping up efforts to organize a coup against President Ch?vez, possibly as early as this month.” According to William Brownfield, ambassador to Venezuela, the U.S. embassy in Venezuela warned Ch?vez about a coup plot in April 2002.[48] The United States Department of State and the investigation by the Office of the Inspector General found no evidence that “U.S. assistance programs in Venezuela, including those funded by the National Endowment for Democracy (NED), were inconsistent with U.S. law or policy” or “? directly contributed, or was intended to contribute, to [the coup d’?tat].”[49][46]

Ch?vez also claimed, during the coup’s immediate aftermath, that the U.S. was still seeking his overthrow. On October 6, 2002, he stated that he had foiled a new coup plot, and on October 20, 2002, he stated that he had barely escaped an assassination attempt while returning from a trip to Europe. During that period, the US Ambassador to Venezuela, Charles Shapiro, warned the Ch?vez administration of two potential assassination plots."[/i]

Now, I don’t think you can possibly call Bush a hero in ANY sense of the term. He has perfected the art of deceit. As for his asshole-ness, it caused the loss of civil liberties in the US, the wreckage of the ME, hundreds of thousands dead, billions of dollars spent on weapons, and in increase in international terrorism.

For all these reasons, you can’t compare the asshole-ness of both. One is presiding over a tiny country, has stunning approval rates and is helping other countries by buying off their debts from the bullies that are the IMF/World Bank. The other is head of the world’s sole superpower and wrecked a whole country based on nothing more than suppositions. Do the math about who is more of an asshole!

Now, I am happy!

How dare the banks of the ‘Goliath of the North’ lend their money and ACTUALLY want it paid back, with the interest due! How dare the oil companies of the Great Satan go in there and develop those oil fields! Those peaceful savages were perfectly happy squatting in their mud huts until those evil capitalists came along!!

I applaud Herr Hugo Chavez — he will now show the world that capitalists are unnecessary and that he can have a socialist utopia, just like its been shown in the Soviet Union, China, Eastern Europe…uh…wait a minute…

[quote]Zeppelin795 wrote:

You must have him confused with Bush.[/quote]

Fantastically moronic non-answer - but surprising? No.

Answer this: if you hate the leader of the country and decide to go protest him right outside the executive home he lives in…

…where will you get into the most trouble: US or Venezuela?

We always hear the wacky Left damn the US for giving support to brutal autocrats - so why is the Left doing the same thing?

Let’s see - on one hand, a hyperbolic fiction that a leader is an authoritarian-in-the-making, with no government to check him, and on the other, a real one. Yet curiously, the Left - full of really, really smart people - actually cry into their pillows about the fiction and whistle past the real one.

Let’s get a betting pool going: when the Presidential term limit occurs and says “you have to go home and not be President anymore”, let’s put money on who leaves the office, observant to the law.

Money on Bush? Money on Chavez?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
How dare the banks of the ‘Goliath of the North’ lend their money and ACTUALLY want it paid back, with the interest due! [/quote]

They don’t just give you money. They insist on unconditionally opening your market to others. We all know how that turned out for Argentina and all the African nations who followod that…

Every develloped country today has gone thru an isolationist period during which it had exorbitant taxes on foreign goods. Look at the US right after the revolution or the Asian “dragons” for examples.

The Soviet Union was a peculiar case. You can’t compare it or any of its European sattelites to the case of Venezuela.

It’s not whether Capitalists are necessary or not, but how much they are allowed to rip off the poor. A line has to be drawn at some point. The US has a stunning divide between haves and have nots because it never drew that line.

[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Answer this: if you hate the leader of the country and decide to go protest him right outside the executive home he lives in…[/quote]

So now we’re comparing the cradle of modern democracy to a country with a long history of dictatorial rulers?

Ok…Let’s play.

Answer this: How many Americans bother showing up on election day? What’s the margin by which a candidate wins?

Contrast with the 63% Chavez got during last (completely transparent) elections, or the regular referendums he holds where public support to his side is always renewed. You should learn something from the mass mobilizations on election day in Latin-America. Oh, and did I mention the Florida recount or the Diebold machines?

Now, go tell your buddy Bush to put his seat between the hands of the American public as Chavez did in the summer of 2004 and let’s see what happens.

For the laughs, read on:

[quote]Let’s get a betting pool going: when the Presidential term limit occurs and says “you have to go home and not be President anymore”, let’s put money on who leaves the office, observant to the law.

Money on Bush? Money on Chavez?[/quote]

Idiotic! One has manyfold the approval rate of the other. I don’t condone his amendment to the constitution, but it’s a choice the Venezuelan people have to make. It’s none of your business.

Of course, did Chavez bomb the hell of any country lately? Did a Venezuelan public figure call for assassinating Bush? Well, Bush did. Pat Robertson did. Where is the outrage on your side?

After the coup, Chavez became BAD for liberties in Venezuela. Chavez is REALLY BAD for the interests of the rich elite. Bush is EXTREMELY WORSE because he goes around killing people.

Go back to cheering your murderous leader and let the people of Venezuela chose the path they want their country to follow. Last I checked, Venezuelan troops weren’t the ones invading countries and killing innocents.

[quote]lixy wrote:

Answer this: How many Americans bother showing up on election day? What’s the margin by which a candidate wins?[/quote]

Irrelevant.

You say this as if anyone here will take your word for it. Your ideology is too transparent for anyone to think you are objectively telling the truth.

So not only are you an irrational extremist, you are a conspiracy theorist?

Keep it up - pretty soon no one will even trust you to give an honest answer to “what time of say is it?”

Hitler was elected by the people - the people that he appealed to and made promises to to win their favor. Upon getting their approval, he began dismantling the democracy he had manipulated to get into the top position.

Chavez knows his history - certainly better than you.

Again, it is pointless to discuss war with you - you mindlessy shriek “Bush attacks people!”, because you want to deflect what we really should be focusing on: the birth of fascism in Venezuela.

Keep shrieking - and whistle past what is really happening.

See above - you have lost all currency to speak intelligently on the issues.

Moreover, the “bet” was about leving when the time was up - i.e, refusing to cling to power outside of the democracy’s rules. You try and change the subject because you know the answer and you don’t want to face it.

Hmm - who did Hitler slaughter when he was first elected?

Again, look at the noisy screaming to avoid the subject.

You precious “left-wing” hero is a monster who is consolidating power under the guise of the people’s support (duping them) and is creating a police state.

Well done on being an apologist for yet another fiend that is the enemy of liberal civilization.