T Nation

Charlie Brown Kwanza

Kwanza…what a joke!

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

So it is a holiday for values? It would have actually accomplished this if it was related to some actual African holiday or widely recognized religious or cultural practice actually done in Africa.

So the point is bro, that it doesn’t relate to Africa because it is not a practice/observance that is actually done in Africa. This is why Kwanza is not recognized in Africa either.

[/quote]

You two (you and doog) are like some sort of twilight zone reverse think tank.

Africa is comprised of 54 countries with a population of approximately 900,000,000 people speaking over eight hundred languages. Could you please define these “African cultural practices” you would appear to be the self-appointed mouthpiece for?

So I guess no one sees any humor in that?
I thought it was funnier than hell.

[quote]Sabrina wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

So it is a holiday for values? It would have actually accomplished this if it was related to some actual African holiday or widely recognized religious or cultural practice actually done in Africa.

So the point is bro, that it doesn’t relate to Africa because it is not a practice/observance that is actually done in Africa. This is why Kwanza is not recognized in Africa either.

You two (you and doog) are like some sort of twilight zone reverse think tank.

Africa is comprised of 54 countries with a population of approximately 900,000,000 people speaking over eight hundred languages. Could you please define these “African cultural practices” you would appear to be the self-appointed mouthpiece for?

[/quote]

Are you implying that Kwanzaa is based on an African tradition? Surely there was one tradition that could have been honored from a continent of 54 countries and 900,000,000 people. What was the need to make up a holiday? Why pretend it is a harvest festival (in December)? Why use corn (brough to Africa by white settlers)? It’s a dumb holiday.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Are you implying that Kwanzaa is based on an African tradition? Surely there was one tradition that could have been honored from a continent of 54 countries and 900,000,000 people. What was the need to make up a holiday? Why pretend it is a harvest festival (in December)? Why use corn (brough to Africa by white settlers)? It’s a dumb holiday.[/quote]

No, I wasn’t implying anything of the sort. Your comprehension continues to astonish.

[quote]Mr. Bear wrote:

The holiday was not made up “out of thin air” as someone has asserted, and nor does it’s legitimacy depend on the life of the man who founded it. As I said before, every holiday is “made up” in the sense that you all are using the phrase. Christmas is made up, it’s a celebration of an event; Christ never mandated its existence. All holidays are an act of rememberance for past culture/happenings, and that is exactly what Kwanzaa is. Give it up, dudes. [/quote]

Don’t you think your point in the second part of the paragraph kind of contradicts your point in the first clause?

Secondly, from what I understand, the guy who invented Kwanzaa used a lot more communism than traditional “African” culture (whatever the hell that is – I didn’t realize there was an “African” culture per se) in putting together the holiday.

The fact that anyone is actually somehow getting offended at the idea of Kwanza is really the hilarious part. So what if it’s not DIRECTLY tied to an African holiday? Does it have to be? Would that somehow make it suddenly “authentic” and permissible?

And to those who wonder about holidays celebrated in this country by people of a certain descent, but not back in the country of their ancestry, I am stunned that everyone is missing a HUGE one:

St. Patrick’s Day.

Ireland - A fairly simple religious holiday.

U.S. - A license to wear a crapload of green, claim to be Irish and drink yourself into a coma.

Now, Ireland has recently sought to expand on the holiday a bit in an effort to drum up some tourism, but overall, it is not celebrated in any close fashion in Ireland as it is here in the U.S. as the ultimate symbol of Irish pride.

So does that mean we have to cancel St. Patty’s Day?

[quote]BostonBarrister wrote:
Mr. Bear wrote:

The holiday was not made up “out of thin air” as someone has asserted, and nor does it’s legitimacy depend on the life of the man who founded it. As I said before, every holiday is “made up” in the sense that you all are using the phrase. Christmas is made up, it’s a celebration of an event; Christ never mandated its existence. All holidays are an act of rememberance for past culture/happenings, and that is exactly what Kwanzaa is. Give it up, dudes.

Don’t you think your point in the second part of the paragraph kind of contradicts your point in the first clause?

Secondly, from what I understand, the guy who invented Kwanzaa used a lot more communism than traditional “African” culture (whatever the hell that is – I didn’t realize there was an “African” culture per se) in putting together the holiday.
[/quote]

Not in the least. The point is that it was “made up” just as all holidays are “made up;” not in the sense that there was no reason behind it, of course.

I was showing that there was a reason behind it, and that it was created for the same reason all holidays are. Those two ideas aren’t contradictory, though I see where you’re coming from.

[quote]Sabrina wrote:
doogie wrote:
Are you implying that Kwanzaa is based on an African tradition? Surely there was one tradition that could have been honored from a continent of 54 countries and 900,000,000 people. What was the need to make up a holiday? Why pretend it is a harvest festival (in December)? Why use corn (brough to Africa by white settlers)? It’s a dumb holiday.

No, I wasn’t implying anything of the sort. Your comprehension continues to astonish.[/quote]

So then, what the hell were you trying to say?

[quote]Kuz wrote:
The fact that anyone is actually somehow getting offended at the idea of Kwanza is really the hilarious part. So what if it’s not DIRECTLY tied to an African holiday? Does it have to be? Would that somehow make it suddenly “authentic” and permissible?

And to those who wonder about holidays celebrated in this country by people of a certain descent, but not back in the country of their ancestry, I am stunned that everyone is missing a HUGE one:

St. Patrick’s Day.

Ireland - A fairly simple religious holiday.

U.S. - A license to wear a crapload of green, claim to be Irish and drink yourself into a coma.

Now, Ireland has recently sought to expand on the holiday a bit in an effort to drum up some tourism, but overall, it is not celebrated in any close fashion in Ireland as it is here in the U.S. as the ultimate symbol of Irish pride.

So does that mean we have to cancel St. Patty’s Day?[/quote]

I’m not offended by it at all. I have several Black friends who are, though. They seem to think Africa has many REAL things worth celebrating, and that celebrating a communist holiday,made up by an insane criminal, that is meant to divide people is offensive. I just think it is stupid, and Prof. X’s attack on whoever asked what the fuck it was on the first page irritated me. Plus, arguing on the internet is fun.


WTF!!!

ALL ‘yo bitches be trippin’!!!

Gotta’ have my KWAANZA!

Don’t like it??? I’ll SMOKE your white ass with my G-Lock, 'yo?

PEEEEEACE!

YEAAAHHH!!!

My BITCH got my back!!!

Listen up…

What I just posted is no more ridiculous than what started this thread…and no more ridiculous than some of the post that followed…

Merry Christmas…yo??

Mufasa

[quote]Mufasa wrote:
Listen up…

What I just posted is no more ridiculous than what started this thread…and no more ridiculous than some of the post that followed…

Merry Christmas…yo??

Mufasa[/quote]

I WAS offended by the Charlie Brown thing.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Why use corn (brough to Africa by white settlers)?
[/quote]

The following link might explain the use of corn.
http://www.slaveryinamerica.org/history/hs_es_seminole.htm

But I’ve got another question.

Why is it called Kwanzaa ?

Kwanzaa derives from the Swahili phrase “matunda ya kwanza”, meaning “first fruits”.

Nearly all african-americans come from West Africa : Ghana, Senegal, Gambie, Ivory Coast, Cameroun, Nigeria.

And Swahili is spoken on the East African coast from southern Somalia to northern Mozambique.

This just doesn’t make sense.

[quote]Lorisco wrote:

No other races celebrate a holiday that did not come from their country of origin or their current country or residence. [/quote]

So what you are essentially telling us is that in order to celebrate Christmas, one would have to be a resident of or emigrant from the Holy Roman Empire?

December 25 was originally the birthday of the Roman sun god Mithra, and was celebrated with a Bacchanal orgy called Saturnalia, until Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared this holiday the celebration of Jesus’ birth. How’s that for a made-up holiday?

Oh, but perhaps you say that your statement does not apply to Christmas, because it is now a Christian holiday, so it is proper to celebrate it in America, being as America is a Christian nation?

Well, you know how many Christians there are here in Japan? About as many Zoroastrians as there are over there in America. You know how many Japanese people celebrate Christmas? Almost all of them.

Lorisco, we already realize that you are an idiot. There is no need to keep proving it by making statements on topics about which you know nothing.

Grates et io Saturnalia.

[quote]elevationgain wrote:
Doogie, here is my opinion on your stance.

You need to let it go.

Your home state, of which I’m sure you have a flag either waving in your yard, or on a belt-buckle, or on your wall, has 5 state Holidays which only requires a skeleton crew of it’s employees to be present for work.

Which ones?

  1. Confederate Hero’s Day (three days after MLK day, go figure)

  2. Texas Independence Day (March 2nd)

  3. San Jacinto Day (21 April)

  4. Emancipation Day (19 June)

  5. LBJ’s B-day (27 August)

Kwanzaa isn’t even recognized as a state Holiday anywhere, all the Holiday represents is the opprotunity for African Americans to reflect and celebrate their heritage. Something Texas gets to do as entire state at least 5 times a year! And get paid for it!

Don’t you think that’s a little extreme? Or do the people of Texas have more of a right to celebrate their heritage than African Americans?

Why is this Holiday’s existence a big deal to you? Because a PHD drummed it out of the air back in the 60’s and didn’t have an emancipation day, or a battle, or a birthday to back it up?

That’s rediculous Doogie, it really is.

GAINER[/quote]

I agree with this 100%

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Lorisco wrote:

No other races celebrate a holiday that did not come from their country of origin or their current country or residence.

So what you are essentially telling us is that in order to celebrate Christmas, one would have to be a resident of or emigrant from the Holy Roman Empire?

December 25 was originally the birthday of the Roman sun god Mithra, and was celebrated with a Bacchanal orgy called Saturnalia, until Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity and declared this holiday the celebration of Jesus’ birth. How’s that for a made-up holiday?

Oh, but perhaps you say that your statement does not apply to Christmas, because it is now a Christian holiday, so it is proper to celebrate it in America, being as America is a Christian nation?

Well, you know how many Christians there are here in Japan? About as many Zoroastrians as there are over there in America. You know how many Japanese people celebrate Christmas? Almost all of them.

Lorisco, we already realize that you are an idiot. There is no need to keep proving it by making statements on topics about which you know nothing.

Grates et io Saturnalia.[/quote]

Thank you…I’ve tried to make the same point about three times and it hasn’t gotten through. Hopefully it will this time.

[quote]doogie wrote:
Kuz wrote:
The fact that anyone is actually somehow getting offended at the idea of Kwanza is really the hilarious part. So what if it’s not DIRECTLY tied to an African holiday? Does it have to be? Would that somehow make it suddenly “authentic” and permissible?

And to those who wonder about holidays celebrated in this country by people of a certain descent, but not back in the country of their ancestry, I am stunned that everyone is missing a HUGE one:

St. Patrick’s Day.

Ireland - A fairly simple religious holiday.

U.S. - A license to wear a crapload of green, claim to be Irish and drink yourself into a coma.

Now, Ireland has recently sought to expand on the holiday a bit in an effort to drum up some tourism, but overall, it is not celebrated in any close fashion in Ireland as it is here in the U.S. as the ultimate symbol of Irish pride.

So does that mean we have to cancel St. Patty’s Day?

I’m not offended by it at all. I have several Black friends who are, though. They seem to think Africa has many REAL things worth celebrating, and that celebrating a communist holiday,made up by an insane criminal, that is meant to divide people is offensive. I just think it is stupid, and Prof. X’s attack on whoever asked what the fuck it was on the first page irritated me. Plus, arguing on the internet is fun.[/quote]

Don’t get me wrong. I think a lot of things that are wrapped in the mantle of “diversity” or “multiculturism” can be fairly divisive, but this one… don’t see it. If St. Patrick’s Day is not viewed as divisive, then why this?


This thread is getting better than…

Hoo-Hash…!

Mufasa