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ChAos & PAIN Workout- Your Opinion?

What’s your opinion on the ChAos & PAIN workout system? I personally think it is full of both volume and intensity so can’t see people being able to stick to it for very long (though I admit I have yet to try it).

He seems to hate Rippetoes/ 5x5 as well (even though they work). Has Ripp actually said anything about this guy as Jamie seems to insult him :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, I have a bad gym at University (we have 2- one of them only has a Jones Machine,Smith Machine and dumbbells but no bar [except EZ bars] while the other gym has everything except a Squat Rack); what is your opinion of Jones Machines as it’s awkward doing squats and deadlifts with dumbbells (I am progressing but it’s very hard to do so with them, especially as dumbbell squats/deadlifts are very similar movements)

Jamie Lewis moves very large weights.

Your gym is low quality, you should ask them to buy more equipment.

Why don’t you give Jamie’s program a shot and decide for yourself.

Side note: Your university gym sounds like it’s run by Curves.

[quote]JLone wrote:
Why don’t you give Jamie’s program a shot and decide for yourself.

Side note: Your university gym sounds like it run by Curves. [/quote]

It’s very annoying how one gym has barbells but no squat rack and the other has only dumbbells. Tried to do ‘bears’ today as I had to rush through the workout and could not lock out on the press in the Jones Machine.

If it helps the dumbbells go up to 2x95lbs and I can’t go that heavy but linear progression is very hard with dumbbells.

P.S I’m surprised nobody’s said anything against CnP workout since Jamie seems to hate Weider, Ripp AND 5x5

What is there to say against it or Jamie?

The guy has evolved his system over nearly two decades of hard, intelligent, mindful training and is now a world record holder, and probably soon to be a multi-record holder. Who could hate on that?

The system certainly isn’t for everybody… You REALLY need to know your shit, know your body, have training as a top tier priority in your life, and probably being a little on the crazy side doesn’t hurt. Not everyone can “wing it” like he does and become a world record holder… Again, the system isn’t for everyone.

Ripp and him and talked I believe… They got nothing but love for each other. Who he hates are the people on Starting Strength message boards who believe that programming anything over Rips beginner SS layout is over training (slight hyperbole here of course, but not by much.) Hell, I read a thread on there where people were trying to get him, a world record holder, to ditch his training style and just give SS or the Texas Method a try to see how it would work. Laughable at best.

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
What is there to say against it or Jamie?

The guy has evolved his system over nearly two decades of hard, intelligent, mindful training and is now a world record holder, and probably soon to be a multi-record holder. Who could hate on that?
[/quote]

the fuck is a jones machine?

[quote]Lonnie123 wrote:
What is there to say against it or Jamie?

The guy has evolved his system over nearly two decades of hard, intelligent, mindful training and is now a world record holder, and probably soon to be a multi-record holder. Who could hate on that?

The system certainly isn’t for everybody… You REALLY need to know your shit, know your body, have training as a top tier priority in your life, and probably being a little on the crazy side doesn’t hurt. Not everyone can “wing it” like he does and become a world record holder… Again, the system isn’t for everyone.

Ripp and him and talked I believe… They got nothing but love for each other. Who he hates are the people on Starting Strength message boards who believe that programming anything over Rips beginner SS layout is over training (slight hyperbole here of course, but not by much.) Hell, I read a thread on there where people were trying to get him, a world record holder, to ditch his training style and just give SS or the Texas Method a try to see how it would work. Laughable at best.[/quote]

I didn’t know they talked-is there a link?

He seems to hate both Weider and Mentzer too :confused:

Is there any program that is good with dumbbells as that’s all I have access to (I also have a Jones Machine so the bar moves in all 4 directions but it’s too short to allow lock-out and the balancing is still fixed).

I’m trying SS with dumbbells but the dumbbell squats and dumbbell deadlifts are too similar to be in the same workout-i’m not strong enough to dumbbell deadlift by the time I do the squats :frowning:

I think he stopped by in the comments somewhere along the way. I dont have the link, I’ve been reading the blog for a long while and its just something I seem to remember. Honestly I might be wrong, its just what I remember reading.

He doesn’t “hate” Wendler or Ripp, he “hates” training programs and ideas that encourage someone to do LESS. ie - Mentzer was training once every 14 days or something. Jamie’s philosophy is that we are ALL better than we think we are, and should all strive to do as much as humanly possible. Wendler programs a deload every fourth week, which Jamie thinks is unnecessary at best, and counter productive at worst.

I think his philosophy is summed up pretty well in the title of one of his blog posts: “Efficiency And Elite Strength Are Asymmetric Goals” … AKA Do NOT do less, do MORE.

As far as your Dumb Bell situation, you are going to have to figure out a way to move forward somehow. Sounds like you have a bit of CHAOS in your training future. Now its time to bring the PAIN.

As for advice, I would just point out that there are MANY ways to progress, here are a few:

  • More weight
  • More Reps
  • More Sets
  • More DENSITY (same work in less time, more work in same time, more work in less time)
  • More Speed (lifting the weight faster)
  • More “mind muscle connection” (feeling the weight better, body mechanics that best use the muscle, etc…)
  • More Time under tension (slow negatives, more reps, more sets)

So you see there are many things you can do with the dumb bells. Shit, you could even do things like DB Power Cleans, one hand DB Press, DB Swings, DB Snatches, DB Clean to Press, Jump DB Squats or deadlifts, etc…

If you are truly limited by the weight of the DB, its time to start getting creative. Tape those sum’ bitches together for all I care, but you absolutely MUST find a way forward.

[quote]ronki23 wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
Why don’t you give Jamie’s program a shot and decide for yourself.

Side note: Your university gym sounds like it run by Curves. [/quote]

It’s very annoying how one gym has barbells but no squat rack and the other has only dumbbells. Tried to do ‘bears’ today as I had to rush through the workout and could not lock out on the press in the Jones Machine.

If it helps the dumbbells go up to 2x95lbs and I can’t go that heavy but linear progression is very hard with dumbbells.

P.S I’m surprised nobody’s said anything against CnP workout since Jamie seems to hate Weider, Ripp AND 5x5 [/quote]
that honestly doesn’t sound too limited if your DB’s go to 95lbs, you have a bar, bench, and a smith machine/3d smith.

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

[quote]ronki23 wrote:

[quote]JLone wrote:
Why don’t you give Jamie’s program a shot and decide for yourself.

Side note: Your university gym sounds like it run by Curves. [/quote]

It’s very annoying how one gym has barbells but no squat rack and the other has only dumbbells. Tried to do ‘bears’ today as I had to rush through the workout and could not lock out on the press in the Jones Machine.

If it helps the dumbbells go up to 2x95lbs and I can’t go that heavy but linear progression is very hard with dumbbells.

P.S I’m surprised nobody’s said anything against CnP workout since Jamie seems to hate Weider, Ripp AND 5x5 [/quote]
that honestly doesn’t sound too limited if your DB’s go to 95lbs, you have a bar, bench, and a smith machine/3d smith. [/quote]

It’s very hard doing linear progression with dumbbells; I tried the Jones and it sucked when I did ‘Bears’- the lack of balancing probably means a lot of stabiliser work is still lost. What’s your opinion on Jones?

EZ bars are useless if I want to bench,deadlift,press or row.

Sometimes I do 3x5 and sometimes 5 sets if I get less than 3 per set but can do the dumbbell weight before that.