T Nation

Changing this Beginner Template


#1

This is the program i was hoping to begin with on Monday. It’s a three day program. I feel that it may take me more time than i have to finish this workout due to work.

My first question is how long do you think it should take to do the above linked program ?

My second question is can i make this a 4 day routine and do it like this:

Monday (Squat – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL) + assistance
Tuesday (Bench – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL) + assistance
Thursday (Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL) + assistance
Friday (Press – 5/3/1 sets/reps, 5x5 @ FSL) + assistance

Thanks for the help!


#2

As long as it works, and yeah you can, but I don’t see why you would


#3

Now if you’re a beginner and are working out without any guidance whatsoever, it’s probably best to just stick with the basic program. One of the worst things a young lifter can do is take advice from other beginners on message boards – they usually have all the advice and none of the experience.

I just want to point out that this nugget of wisdom is right at the start of the article you just linked to. If you’re really short on time just do less reps of the assistance stuff or none at all. You can also superset where appropriate, chinups inbetween bench/ohp and dips/pushups in between squats, etc.


#4

Ok thanks for the help.

Only other question is when would you deload on this program … the way i see it, you do the following …

Week 1:
Squat/Bench 5/3/1 Monday
Press/Deadlift 5/3/1 Wednesday
*Squat/Bench 5/3/1 Friday

So my questions are:

  1. Would you start Week 2 with Press/Deadlifts ?
  2. That second Squat/Bench day in Week 1, would you follow Week 2 5/3/1 percentages ?

If it is done like above, you would deload after 2 weeks …

Sorry, just a bit unclear on how to follow this program … thanks!


#5

You don’t change a template to suit your needs, you choose a template that suits your needs.

Re read the last sentence of the article.


#6

Not looking to change the program, just looking for a few answers to my questions from my last post.


#7

5/3/1 principales have not changed since the first book. (That is the answer to your question)

That is why you choose a template that suits your needs. It’s easier and it lets you learn the basics of the program.


#8

I understand, but in neither book do you do 5/3/1 sets for both lifts per day. I’ve seen 5/3/1 for one and 55% 65% 75% for another, but I’ve never seen the above beginner routine with both lifts being 5/3/1 sets on all three days. That’s why I’m a bit confused on how to run the above linked program.


#9

Found a similar thread to mine where the last person to comment had my exact same question but nobody answered it … appreciate some insight!


#10

[quote=“dubravac, post:1, topic:225287, full:true”]

This is the program i was hoping to begin with on Monday. It’s a three day program. I feel that it may take me more time than i have to finish this workout due to work.[/quote]

It’s actually a 3+ day program-

“Tues/Thurs/Sat/Sun some kind of running or conditioning should be done. This will largely be based on your own goals, your current fitness level and what you have access to. DO NOT run yourself into the ground with conditioning; follow the “5/3/1 50% Rule” when conditioning.”

1-How long would it take you to do, say, 100 push-ups/100 pull-ups/100 bodyweight lunges?

It looks like the assistance work will dictate how long you’re actually training in a day, since the actual 5/3/1 sets shouldn’t take all that long, provided you take reasonable rest periods in between sets and don’t go off texting on your phone in between sets or some such.

2- The original 5/3/1 gave each “major” lift its own day + assistance.

So, if you want to do the original 5/3/1 with FSL added to it, I don’t see why not.


#11

I made an account to help out with this question. I was trying to find out the exact same thing since it was a little different to the beginner version in the book.

I can’t find the actual post yet, but there 100% is a post somewhere here with Him answering the same question about the 5/3/1 sets listed for two days.

Now it might be the least definitive answer you could want, but he said you can go faster and progress to the next week as soon as the workout repeats (so 5s and 3s workout in the same week etc) OR just repeat the same weight and sets for the main lift.

So basically, do whatever you like more, or even go faster when you feel good and repeat the same weight for squats/bench when you’re feeling a bit more tired or just wanting to practice more good reps at the same weight. You will still progress great either way.

AND another alternative - if you enjoy the extra squat and bench workout stick to the above, it’s great and will work. Otherwise just go A/B/A and B/A/B each week, and you still have the option to stick to the same weights twice or progress more like above.

Lots of words, but pick your favourite and work hard, Wendler knows his stuff.


#12

I have no doubt that Wendler knows his stuff. I started the beginner routine from my first post in this thread and I’m very sore lol, in a good way!

I just wanted clarification that if I do A/B/A style, do I stay with the same percentages on the second A as the first A since it’s the same week. Unless I’m told otherwise I think I will do it this way. Then in week two I will do B/A/B with second week percentages and 3 reps instead of 5 as illustrated in the 5/3/1 program. Hopefully this sounds correct?!


#13

The suggestion in your first post looks a lot like this recent recommandation of Jim’s. Don’t just read the first post, more explanations are given in the thread.

Having tried something very similar : it’s foolproof and it works.

To make it simple :

  • Choose one push, one pull, one squat and one hinge accessory.

  • Perform Agile 8.

  • Jump / throw

  • On squat & deadlift days, superset all your main and FSL sets with push and pull accessories.

  • On bench & press days, superset all your main and FSL sets with squat & hinge accessories.

  • Do one of your pet exercises for prehab after that. It should be light. No, lighter.

  • Then, some light conditioning (not killing yourself, but enough to get your heart working)

  • Go home, eat, rest, live your life

Whether you use 5/3/1 rep scheme or 5’s pro, however many sets you perform for FSL depend on your goals. I like 5’s pro + FSL 5x5 for leader and 5/3/1 + FSL3x5 for anchor.


#14

I’m going to stick to the routine that Jim had on his blog and see how it goes. Appreciate all the help and insight. I only really wanted to know if i follow the below routine, how to handle the percentages …

ie. Week 1 - A/B/A … on the second A, do i use the 5/3/1 percentages and reps for week 1 still ?
Week 2 - B/A/B - Do you go straight to week 2 percentages and 3 reps or do i do the first B with the previous weeks reps and percentages (because it was only done once in week 1) ?

Thats all i’d really like to know. Thx!


#15

If I read the blog entry correctly, it’s not specified because it’s not that important or because it depends.

One of the principles of 5/3/1 is progress slowly. So I would use the 5’s percentages on week 1, then the 3’s percentages on week 2… But if you can keep up with a faster progression, great for you.

About A/B/A then B/A/B, or A/B/A then A/B/A, that would depend on if you want to focus on a particular lift, how well you recover, etc. For example I don’t like deadlifting heavy more than once a week, but that’s just me.

There are multiple 5/3/1 beginner templates (for example in 5/3/1 2nd edition), most of which are clearer than this one. If you are unsure of what to do, stick to what you understand best. It will work as long as it’s not too stupid and you put some effort anyway.