T Nation

Changing Compounds in Middle of Cycle


#1

hie is guys i have been on a test e and dbol cycle for two weeks.my supplier cant supply test e can i switch to sustanon
my dosages were test e 500 mg weekly and dbol 20 mg daily i planned to run the cycle for 8 weeks


Sus250 Water Weight
#2

Did you not buy your cycle before starting...? What the fuck.


#3

well, sustanon has some really long last esters in it, so that makes the cycle more complicated...

the better choice would be test prop...


#4

how do you even buy just 2 weeks worth of test?


#5

Test is test. While "on" you can match your test E injections for sust (assuming you're injecting bi-weekly) but it will effect how you do your PCT.

Test decanoate stays in your system for ~ 18-21 days while Test E is out in 10-14. So basically you'll have to start your PCT a week later.


#6

I think he's saying he's two weeks in but will run out test E before 8 weeks, presumably after week 5.


#7

you can just switch to sust as if it was test E. Pin it the same days you were pinning the E.

And before someone goes all "waaaaa stable blood levels waaaaa" I'll tell you right now there is no real-world difference between pinning sust eod and just pinning it twice a week like it was test E.

Hell, I'm running a T400 blend right now which is basically just a high strength sustanon, and I sure as hell can't be arsed pinning it eod, so I pin on my usual lazy fuck schedule and there's no side effects in sight.


#8

That seems to be a very popular opinion. Its kinda funny because shadow pro told me to pin my tren blend e3d which essentialy has esters with the dame half lives as sust, it makes sense to me but everything I read about sust people say you wont notice any difference between e3d and 2x week. Either way I'm doing my next run with sust 250 and tri-tren 150 and I'm gonna pin e3d just to be safe.


#9

I think Shadwell's advice probably had more to do with the fact there was Tren A in your blend which has a really short half life. Also, the stable blood levels thing seems to matter a lot more with tren than it does with test.

Looking awesome in the new avatar by the way mate!


#10

test enanthate has a half-life of 4.5 days. test decanoate has a half-life of almost 3 weeks.... they are not interchangeable.

again, it would be easier to switch to prop, especially on a short cycle than it would to a longer ester...


#11

edit: i just realized i confused decanoate with undecanoate...

anyway, the half-life of the deca ester is 7-12 days, vs 18-24 days of undeca. and test e/cyp is still 4.5 days...

i still feel that switching from a longer ester to a shorter ester, especially in a relatively short cycle, is the way to go, as the transition off is much easier.

http://jcp.bmj.com/content/46/7/660.full.pdf


#12

FWIW, here's a rudimentary explanation on why i don't care for Sustanon, as opposed to test e/cyp:

Now, say for do an 8 week cycle of test e @ 500 mg/wk. the half-life is 4.5 days, but for ease of timing/explanation, we'll use a week. we will also add in half of the week prior (one can add in more, but this is simplest, for the most part).

i'm a firm believer that PCT should start as soon as your exogenous dose tapers to close to what you could optimally produce. example, the max an adult male could expect is 10 mg/day, or 70 mg/wk.

Week 8 (last dose of 500 mg test)
Off week 1: 375 (250+125)
Off week 2: 187
Off week 3: 93
PCT week 1: 46 (here we are below 70 mg/wk)
PCT week 2: 23
PCT week 3: 16
PCT week 4: 8
PCT week 5: 4
PCT week 6: 2
PCT week 7: 1

now, with sustanon we have the long deca ester, the mid length isocaproate ester, and the short prop and phenylprop esters. one of the issues here, is the short esters are out quick, which we will notice as a big change in total test (over a third of the dose). however, the long ester is around long enough, that we're using almost a TRT dose for a while, just waiting for it to get back down...

Week 8 (last dose of 500 mg sustanon, 60 mg prop, 120 mg phylprop, 120 iso, 200 mg)
Off week 1: 240
Off week 2: 195
Off week 3: 97
Off week 4: 86
PCT week 1: 40 (here we are below 70 mg/wk)
PCT week 2: 37
PCT week 3: 19
PCT week 4: 19
PCT week 5: 9
PCT week 6: 9
PCT week 7: 4
PCT week 8: 4
PCT week 9: 2
PCT week 10: 2
PCT week 11: 1
PCT week 12: 1

now i realize this is overly generalized, but the point is pretty clear of the disadvantages for recreational users (for TRT, though, it seems to offer some different advantages).

  1. the first week "off" sustanon sucks... the active dose is almost down to half right away.
  2. PCT has to wait for at least a week longer on sust
  3. PCT doesn't work as well, and needs to be longer (twice as long, maybe?), due to the longer lasting esters....

#13

Yeah but isn't prop and tren ace very similar half life? My doctor told me to pin my sust for trt once a week iv been doing twice regardles.
Cheers sitting at a meaty 112kgs in that photo gonna change it again when I get some good pics towards the end of my next run


#14

similar mate, yeah, but for whatever reason it seems like stable blood levels matter way more with tren. I don't use it so I can't comment; it's just what I've observed.

112kg is a big dude by anyone's standards mate! Nice work