T Nation

Changes to the Steroid Forum

I am going to continue this discussion here because I think that a lot of guys are missing it or not participating in it over on the tech support forum.

Whoa! brought up the fact that this place has become pretty cluttered and full of ridiculous questions, trolls and such lately. I think it comes and goes, and I don’t know if massive sweeping changes are in order, but I would like to hear continued dialogue on improvements made to the forum, or, in the case of more steroid articles, the website.

One thing I will reiterate is that we must be very careful when making decisions about big changes here. The “no sources” change has become a bit overarching and sometimes extremely restricts dialogue now and this is always excused with, “you guys wanted it this way.”

Well, we wanted something, but we got more than we bargained for in many cases, primarily, I think, because concrete guidelines were never established. Because of my experience with that, I would suggest a big “Proceed With Caution” sign to any major decisions.

The final posts regarding more steroid articles seem to be “safest” to me, but can we just open up the topic here for more discussion?

Read this first: http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1974537

I think the simplest solution here is to require a minimum post count of say, 50 or 100 to be able to post in the steroid forum.

That or your “Beginners Steroids” forum sounds like a good idea.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
I am going to continue this discussion here because I think that a lot of guys are missing it or not participating in it over on the tech support forum.

Whoa! brought up the fact that this place has become pretty cluttered and full of ridiculous questions, trolls and such lately. I think it comes and goes, and I don’t know if massive sweeping changes are in order, but I would like to hear continued dialogue on improvements made to the forum, or, in the case of more steroid articles, the website.

One thing I will reiterate is that we must be very careful when making decisions about big changes here. The “no sources” change has become a bit overarching and sometimes extremely restricts dialogue now and this is always excused with, “you guys wanted it this way.”

Well, we wanted something, but we got more than we bargained for in many cases, primarily, I think, because concrete guidelines were never established. Because of my experience with that, I would suggest a big “Proceed With Caution” sign to any major decisions.

The final posts regarding more steroid articles seem to be “safest” to me, but can we just open up the topic here for more discussion?

Read this first: http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=1974537 [/quote]

Something needs to be done, but so far nobody has a concrete answer that sounds like it would work. I’ve never seen it so cluttered myself either, and it is a kind of turn off at times, where you don’t really even feel like checking things out anymore. I’ve had my bits and pieces going and there have been just enough of the more mature guys still posting to keep me from getting too bugged out. But it was getting close there and it seems like there’s yet another influx of threads I don’t even want to look at cause they’re all single digit posters or just retarted from the onset of the title. It sucks.

        I agree with Dianna Bolans views, but still think we can figure something out to limit the amount of stupid shit flowing in. Some amount is ok, but this amount recently is just crazy, and irritating as hell sometimes, lol.

               Rating is ok, but like was said by 5.0 I think, even those get buried and forgotten about by all the new threads from noobs that aren't worth a shit for the most part loading up the front page every day.

             Interesting thread and glad Whoa! initiated this discussion. I'll try to think of something too.

               Oh, and no I'm no vet, but not too shabby either. Anyway good one Cortes, hope we continue I like what I'm reading from everyone in the tech thread, and hope we get some more ideas flowing from all.

                  ToneBone

[quote]Inner Hulk wrote:
I think the simplest solution here is to require a minimum post count of say, 50 or 100 to be able to post in the steroid forum.

That or your “Beginners Steroids” forum sounds like a good idea.[/quote]

I thought of that too, but think about it, there are noobs a plenty who will sit down and bury out 100 nonsensical posts in a heartbeat to be “down”.

                   TBN

Doing anything more than what we have now is going to make us look like a bro board.

I would like someone to have the ability to ban idiots from the forum for a month if they offer bad info, or give stupid advice.

Clear that sort of baggage out of the steroid forum, and you will have very few problems.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Doing anything more than what we have now is going to make us look like a bro board.

I would like someone to have the ability to ban idiots from the forum for a month if they offer bad info, or give stupid advice.

Clear that sort of baggage out of the steroid forum, and you will have very few problems.

[/quote]

           That's a good idea right there. Suspension of posting privelages for a month 1st offense, etc. with stiffer penalties for continued bs.

                Nice idea Rain.

I posted my thoughts in the tech forum. Having this two-forum, same-thread thing is confusing.

Well, I’m hardly a vet here but since most of my posting is on this forum, I will chime in on this…

First, I wonder if the influx isn’t like the post-New Years influx at most gyms. You have all those annoying New Year’s resolution folks show up and make everyone’s life hell for a while but eventually, they just go away.

As for the minimum post idea, no, just no. I have seen people on here for 3-4 months with 1200+ posts. Think about that. It works out to about 100 posts a day. Which, of course, makes it a useless criteria for worthy postings…

The banning idea would be hard to enforce. We would need a very strict set of rules on what would constitute a need for banning. But with even the strictest set of rules, it will always be up for interpretation. So they you will have one person enforcing it one way, and someone else another.

A separate forum for vets wouldn’t work. First off, being the resident longtime steroid virgin here, I learn everything from the questions I ask to or the posts made by the vets. I like being able to ask questions on their threads as well. I think it helps clarify things for both myself and for others. And I honestly think that some of the most interesting discussions have come from questions asked by the people with no experience. 5.0’s thread about brewing and Cheeta’s thread about women and AAS come to mind. Moving the vets to another forum just divides the knowledge up and I love that all this knowledge if here.

I COMPLETELY understand where some of the vets, or even just the regulars, get tired of threads asking the same questions over and over and over ad nauseam. I have no problem with those either being answered with a link to the stickies or just being ignored.

I looked through some of the other forums and there are quite a few useless threads and obvious trolls there as well. People with 1 post asking everyone whether creatine is a steroid, how to get huge like Bruce Lee or Brad in Fight Club, where they can get a good routine since they looked everywhere, to rate their most muscular pose at 135lbs, and even if having someone lie under the bench with a rope around your chest and pull on it will increase pectoral activation while benching. The point is, I think that we feel that we are alone with this “problem” but it doesn’t seem that way.

So what is the answer? Or is there even a real problem?Well, a wait and see approach might work like it does for all the New Year’s resolution people. I think more articles would be interesting and I think there are a few people on here who could write something quite interesting. I think the rating system could work with the star system that exists and also work on a three strikes type idea.

If someone asks something just stupid, just write “DONE” as your response. Then someone who clicks on the thread and sees several “DONE” posts will basically know they are wasting their time. They can read on if they choose but you’ve been warned. This way, a newbie who asks something not so smart but comes around and shows some thought and intelligence will not feel they are being lumped in with the masses. Or the easiest thing would be just to ignore them. Don’t flame, don’t post, just ignore. Unfed trolls tend to starve quickly.

Well, I think I have written more than anyone here will read but I think most of you know that I appreciate all the patience you have always shown me. I try not to be a pest and try to help out where I can. Sometimes, I post in the hopes that you vets can put your time to better use by helping the people that need your expertise. And you are a pretty swell group compared to the utter shite I have seen on other boards. Hell, even the vets who I have never PM’d have managed to help me out in many ways(although I’ve heard that Rainjack is a douche).

And with that…

[quote]MrZsasz wrote:
Don’t flame, don’t post, just ignore. Unfed trolls tend to starve quickly.[/quote]

I agree with this 110 percent. A lot of these retarded posts look too familiar to me. As in, the same person is starting stupid threads just to get people worked up. Could just be my imagination, but if it’s not, then this is certainly the answer.

Or, a person could give them an answer, but to go waaaay over their heads with the science so they’ll never understand it and just say ‘fuck this.’ But I’m probably not smart enough for that, and it would take longer.

That defeats the purpose of the entire website…people come on here to ask stupid questions to people who know something about it and then you give them advice, and/or refrence. They take your advice and research the topic of interest.

Also, no one on this shit has even close to a PhD… so wat makes you a “Vetran”? just relax… that sounds so gay " yea im a vetran on the T-Nation steroid forum" just answer the dumb question as u have been with the generic response of “go research”… its not that big of a deal…

[quote]B101 wrote:

Also, no one on this shit has even close to a PhD… [/quote]

You obviously haven’t familiarized yourself with some of the people around here. I only know a few with a PhD, and not all related to science per se, but many have advanced higher education degrees.

A thought:

First, choose 2 or 3 mods as mentioned above.

Then…
Nobody has posting abilities in the forum at first…but…
put up some sort of area where there are introductions.

In the intro:
Ask for basics, age,weight,training experience, AAS experience, if have done cycle before what type of cycle/compounds…what kind of gains were made.

Then, the mods just peruse through introductions and choose is granted posting abilities based on the competency they displayed in their intro.

This way, newbs could still be let onto the forums assuming they appear competant.
I doubt trolls would go to the effort of outlining and introduction and such.

So at the worst you might get trolls posting introductions to the board.

I dunno if thats even possible or if its just stupid but hey just a thought. Basically its a small hoop to jump through for people that one too, and its a subtle display of competency to members of the board.

And the follow up to that: and if a troll did somehow slip through…as soon as they act like a jackass…their gone…simple as that.

GetSwole, bad idea. Not everyone likes to give out personal information, nor should it be required to post or ask questions. It sort of defeats the free speech here, and sets up an elitist system.

I do think that trolls should be banned, provided they are repeatedly being stupid. Of course we’ve already seen this on T-Nation as a whole, and those users just register new accounts to post again.

I think that if anything gets changed it should be in steps. First step: test out a beginner’s steroid forum. We won’t be able to speculate as to what should be done from there until we see how that works out. Plus it avoids throwing too many changes in at once, which could potentially turn away a lot of newer posters. We don’t want them to leave, we want to streamline the forum so everyone comes out ahead.

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
I think that if anything gets changed it should be in steps. First step: test out a beginner’s steroid forum. We won’t be able to speculate as to what should be done from there until we see how that works out. Plus it avoids throwing too many changes in at once, which could potentially turn away a lot of newer posters. We don’t want them to leave, we want to streamline the forum so everyone comes out ahead.[/quote]

I agree with this, except I think that trying to get more articles would be a better ‘first step.’

To clear up any ambiguity:
I meant an introduction to the steroid forum and the subsequent giving of posting privileges…this would only apply to the steroid board, not T-Nation in general.

However, I do see your in point about the elitist system and personal info.

All we really need is something on the order of a dedicated steroid mod.

The steroid forum is a different animal than any of the other forums we have here on T-Nation. There are legal issues raised here that you just don’t run into in any of the other forums.

We need someone that knows what is reasonable to post, and what is over the line.

If we learned anything from ORD - we should know that there are things you can say in the open forum, and things that need to be said in private.

That is my concern. Not so much the stupid newb questions in general, because everyone was new to this at some point. But I think that certain comments and questions need to be made on private.

I hate the idea of vets. Hate it.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
All we really need is something on the order of a dedicated steroid mod.

The steroid forum is a different animal than any of the other forums we have here on T-Nation. There are legal issues raised here that you just don’t run into in any of the other forums.

We need someone that knows what is reasonable to post, and what is over the line.

If we learned anything from ORD - we should know that there are things you can say in the open forum, and things that need to be said in private.

That is my concern. Not so much the stupid newb questions in general, because everyone was new to this at some point. But I think that certain comments and questions need to be made on private.

I hate the idea of vets. Hate it. [/quote]

I agree with everything here.

[quote]Schwarzenegger wrote:
GetSwole, bad idea. Not everyone likes to give out personal information, nor should it be required to post or ask questions. It sort of defeats the free speech here, and sets up an elitist system.

I do think that trolls should be banned, provided they are repeatedly being stupid. Of course we’ve already seen this on T-Nation as a whole, and those users just register new accounts to post again.[/quote]

A potential way to elimnate some of the one post wonders who clutter things up and piss everyone off trolling around (on T-Nation as a whole not just the steroid forum) is to have a 1 month period after registering as a member where you cannot post in the forums at all.

Maybe they would actually spend that month READING articles and discussion threads and thinking, so that when they are free to post, they may have some valid questions in mind.

Another idea when someone registers, T-Nation could mail them a ‘starter’ pack with a list/link to important articles and such for newbs.
Just some thoughts…