T Nation

Change in Metabolism?

I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this:

When I weighed 200 pds, I was gaining on almost a pound a week on 3600 kcal/day

I dropped 8 pds to 192, and started slowly ramping up cals again to gain. I have been at 3600 cals for the past 2 weeks, and haven’t gained anything (been weighing on same scale). I should also mention my macros are very similar, as are my workouts/cardio.

Extra muscle will boost your metabolism.

The leaner you are, the faster your metabolism is, which is essentially the same thing gladiator said. So If you cut excess fat from your frame, your metabolism increased. Therefore you will need additional calories to “bulk up” from what you needed at your previous weight. In any case, see what happens when you add 500 calories to your diet and use your body as an experiment.

[quote]harrisonplunkett wrote:
The leaner you are, the faster your metabolism is, which is essentially the same thing gladiator said. So If you cut excess fat from your frame, your metabolism increased. [/quote]

WHAT??? This is NOT what I meant. I meant to say the same person will get a faster metabolism with extra LEAN muscle regardless of any extra fat gained. Less fat generally an indicator of fast metabolism but is not always the case.

EDIT: If I gain extra muscle my metabolism will increase INDEPENENT of ANY change in body fat %.

I think harris meant that decreasing body fat % while maintaining body weight increases metabolism???

[quote]harrisonplunkett wrote:
The leaner you are, the faster your metabolism is, which is essentially the same thing gladiator said. So If you cut excess fat from your frame, your metabolism increased. Therefore you will need additional calories to “bulk up” from what you needed at your previous weight. In any case, see what happens when you add 500 calories to your diet and use your body as an experiment.[/quote]

this is 100% false. it actually slows down as you lose weight. for two reasons:

  1. fat is metabolically active tissue, it burns ~1/2 as many calories as muscle tissue

  2. the heavier you are, the more calories you burn just moving around. try walking around all day with a 25lb weighted vest on if you don’t believe me

as people lose weight, their BRM goes down, not up.

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
harrisonplunkett wrote:
The leaner you are, the faster your metabolism is, which is essentially the same thing gladiator said. So If you cut excess fat from your frame, your metabolism increased. Therefore you will need additional calories to “bulk up” from what you needed at your previous weight. In any case, see what happens when you add 500 calories to your diet and use your body as an experiment.

this is 100% false. it actually slows down as you lose weight. for two reasons:

  1. fat is metabolically active tissue, it burns ~1/2 as many calories as muscle tissue

  2. the heavier you are, the more calories you burn just moving around. try walking around all day with a 25lb weighted vest on if you don’t believe me

as people lose weight, their BRM goes down, not up.[/quote]

True. I was wondering why I am not gaining weight, even though my cals are the same as they were when I was 200 pds and gaining.

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
harrisonplunkett wrote:
The leaner you are, the faster your metabolism is, which is essentially the same thing gladiator said. So If you cut excess fat from your frame, your metabolism increased. Therefore you will need additional calories to “bulk up” from what you needed at your previous weight. In any case, see what happens when you add 500 calories to your diet and use your body as an experiment.

this is 100% false. it actually slows down as you lose weight. for two reasons:

  1. fat is metabolically active tissue, it burns ~1/2 as many calories as muscle tissue

  2. the heavier you are, the more calories you burn just moving around. try walking around all day with a 25lb weighted vest on if you don’t believe me

as people lose weight, their BRM goes down, not up.[/quote]

You’re confusing leaner and lighter

[quote]markdp wrote:
I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this:

When I weighed 200 pds, I was gaining on almost a pound a week on 3600 kcal/day

I dropped 8 pds to 192, and started slowly ramping up cals again to gain. I have been at 3600 cals for the past 2 weeks, and haven’t gained anything (been weighing on same scale). I should also mention my macros are very similar, as are my workouts/cardio.[/quote]

While eating 3,600 cals the last time (at 200lbs) you put on some new muscle. Now, because of the new muscle, your metabolism is slightly faster (maybe significantly faster, depending on how much you’ve added). This would be a reason why 3,600cals currently, can not put weight on you. Also, take a look at your everyday activities. Maybe you’re doing more walking or standing on your feet more ect.

EDIT: This is what RED was getting at.

[quote]elusive wrote:
markdp wrote:
I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this:

When I weighed 200 pds, I was gaining on almost a pound a week on 3600 kcal/day

I dropped 8 pds to 192, and started slowly ramping up cals again to gain. I have been at 3600 cals for the past 2 weeks, and haven’t gained anything (been weighing on same scale). I should also mention my macros are very similar, as are my workouts/cardio.

While eating 3,600 cals the last time (at 200lbs) you put on some new muscle. Now, because of the new muscle, your metabolism is slightly faster (maybe significantly faster, depending on how much you’ve added). This would be a reason why 3,600cals currently, can not put weight on you. Also, take a look at your everyday activities. Maybe you’re doing more walking or standing on your feet more ect.

EDIT: This is what RED was getting at.[/quote]

considering a lb of muscle only burns about 5 extra calories per day, even if he added 10 lbs of solid muscle, that would only net him 50 extra calories per day, sweet.

what is more likely is that his lifestyle changed and/or he is getting more NEAT. If your overweight, you probably don’t feel like moving around a lot, but once you lose some excess flab, all of a sudden, you may feel like taking the stairs more often.

[quote]JMoUCF87 wrote:
elusive wrote:
markdp wrote:
I was just wondering if anyone else had experienced this:

When I weighed 200 pds, I was gaining on almost a pound a week on 3600 kcal/day

I dropped 8 pds to 192, and started slowly ramping up cals again to gain. I have been at 3600 cals for the past 2 weeks, and haven’t gained anything (been weighing on same scale). I should also mention my macros are very similar, as are my workouts/cardio.

While eating 3,600 cals the last time (at 200lbs) you put on some new muscle. Now, because of the new muscle, your metabolism is slightly faster (maybe significantly faster, depending on how much you’ve added). This would be a reason why 3,600cals currently, can not put weight on you. Also, take a look at your everyday activities. Maybe you’re doing more walking or standing on your feet more ect.

EDIT: This is what RED was getting at.

considering a lb of muscle only burns about 5 extra calories per day, even if he added 10 lbs of solid muscle, that would only net him 50 extra calories per day, sweet.

what is more likely is that his lifestyle changed and/or he is getting more NEAT. If your overweight, you probably don’t feel like moving around a lot, but once you lose some excess flab, all of a sudden, you may feel like taking the stairs more often.[/quote]

Previously you said that fat burns about 1/2 as many cals as muscle does. So lets he was 200lbs and lets say his lean muscle mass was 165 lbs just for the sake of the argument. And that after he bulked and cut, he ended up with 192 lbs and 175 lbs.
So that would mean that his metabolism is more demanding now that he has 10 lbs more muscle than before, and is burning twice as much calories for those 10 lbs of muscle that he gained (not total calories, just for the 10 lbs).
So you’re contradicting yourself. Which one is it? Does muscle only burn 5 cal more per day, or does fat burn half as much as muscle does?

[quote]jCaesar88 wrote:
Which one is it? Does muscle only burn 5 cal more per day, or does fat burn half as much as muscle does?[/quote]

read this slowly, and out loud too:

  1. muscle burns 5 calories per lb per day

  2. fat burns about half that (~2-3 calories per lb per day)

they are not mutually exclusive.

got it?

For the record, 1 lb of muscle burns up to 50 cals a day, not 5. On top of that, muscle is more “metabolically active.” Way to neglect that.
Your claims are fallacious.
Clap yourself

Sorry for the miss understanding. Obviously, if you decrease muscle mass then your metabolism will decrease with it. I meant leaner in the sense that there was a decrease in body fat while an increase in muscle mass. Leaner is not to be confused with lighter.

[quote]jCaesar88 wrote:
For the record, 1 lb of muscle burns up to 50 cals a day, not 5. On top of that, muscle is more “metabolically active.” Way to neglect that.
Your claims are fallacious.
Clap yourself[/quote]

“for the record”, you’re wrong. 50 calories per lb WAS thought to be the calorie burn for muscle, but recent research has shown that value to be GROSSLY overestimated. They have shown that RMR increases on the order of 16 cal per kg, or about 5-6 calories per lb, like I said.

Think about it, if what you say is true, a pro bodybuilder who weighs 250 lbs @ 8%BF would need to eat ~4,250 MORE calories than the average guy who weights 170 @ 14% BF, just to maintain weight? Nope, sorry bud.(go ahead, do the math yourself)

Next time, get your facts straight before making an idiot of yourself on a public forum.

I pulled the numbers out of a study done in 2001. No I’m not gonna go find it again and post it.
So you’re saying that pro bodybuilders don’t eat thousands of more calories than “normal” folk? Lol alright man, you win. You’re the smartest man alive. Everything you say, and no matter how you phrase it, is true from now on. I admit that you’re just the smartest guy alive.

[quote]jCaesar88 wrote:
So you’re saying that pro bodybuilders don’t eat thousands of more calories than “normal” folk? [/quote]

No, the most certainly do, just not to the degree that 50 calories per pound of muscle would dictate.

Say a pro bodybuilder who weighs 250 lbs has to eat 18 cal per lb to maintain (which is what most people would bulk on)

that’s 4,500 calories.

Now take your average gym trainee at 170 lbs, who has to eat only 14x BW to maintain (in other words, on the low end of the spectrum)

that’s ~2,400 calories

Now, say they are both 10% BF. That would bean that the bodybuilder is carrying around 72 lbs more muscle mass.

If your assumption that muscle burns 50 calories per day holds true, the pro bodybuilder would have to eat 3,600 calories MORE than the average guy to maintain.

In other words, he would have to eat 6,000 calories, or 24xBW in order to simply avoid LOSING weight.

not fucking likely.

logic, use it.

If you look at John Berardi’s “Dave Tate Project” he talks about Dave Tate’s daily intake, which turned out to be about 10500 calories… about 7000 calories more than what I need (at 6’1’’ 195lbs.). Probably pretty proportional to the amount of muscle he has on his frame compared to mine.