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Chad Waterbury's Total Body HFT?

It’s two work outs a day, three days a week. One in the morning and one at night. In the book he outlines 5 workouts - Get strong, get even stronger, get big, get even bigger, and get lean. This is the get even bigger workout, but he talks it up the most intese overall and apparently it’s great for fat shredding too.

Has anyone tried it? I’ve never lifter twice in one day, and it sounds like overkill, but I wanted to hear from you guys.

Only Waterbury program I ever did was Anti Bodybuilding for Hypertrophy. Saw some really good results. Which book are you talking about?

The book is called Huge in a hurry.

I have no thoughts on this specific workout because I KNOW that Waterbury hates bodybuilding…so I know I wouldn’t listen to him for the best advice on getting swole.

As far as training twice a day, I think this is a bad idea for a newb, not so bad for someone intermediate, and it worked for me when losing body fat and working on condition.

Only training like that three days a week isn’t something I would recommend either for a newb. Newbs recover faster. i think most newbs need to be in the gym at least 5 days a week for optimal progress unless having some real problem with recovery.

I have the book… never tried any of the workouts though, just like reading stuff from CW. While I love CW’s ideas about high frequency training (as an O-lifter myself), some of the workouts just look kind of boring to be honest. One of the workouts in Get Lean is basically you hit total 50 reps at a load of 20-22 RM in a circuit of Cable Seated Face Pull, Cable Standing Chest Press, Squat, and Reverse Crunch. You stop the set when your speed slows down, so you have to keep count of all the reps you are doing until you hit 50 reps. Just a bitch to do in a workout, especially when your heart is beating like crazy.

Oh, and each workout ends in HIIT (3x a week workouts, I need to get in the gym more than that), where you do something like 15s sprint, 45s walk for 10-20 minutes.

[quote]valkairon wrote:
It’s two work outs a day, three days a week. One in the morning and one at night. In the book he outlines 5 workouts - Get strong, get even stronger, get big, get even bigger, and get lean. This is the get even bigger workout, but he talks it up the most intese overall and apparently it’s great for fat shredding too. [/quote]

Most likely no one in this forum has done that program. However, I remember years ago several posters incorporated Waterbury’s templates and methods and made good progress in size and strength, though perhaps not the sort of symmetry sought by a bodybuilder or physique oriented person.

I think Waterbury has some good info on how to set up full body training if that’s what needed in specific cases.

[quote]
Has anyone tried it? I’ve never lifter twice in one day, and it sounds like overkill, but I wanted to hear from you guys. [/quote]

Training twice a day is unnecessary for 99% of people in 99% of situations. Also, (I say this without intending to be a dick), if you’re inquiring about twice-a-day training, you seriously aren’t the candidate for it.

I am seeing good physique and strength results from full body training 3x per week.

I would advise you to find a more reasonable approach than the one you are referring to seems to be. I use Jim Wendler’s 531 principles with 531 for my first lift (upper or lower), 5’s progression for the second lift (upper or lower, opposite of first lift), and 5x10 BBB scheme for the third lift (upper or lower, opposite of second lift). Then I do back/biceps/core assistance work. There’s no need to train twice a day unless training once per day no longer works for you.

[quote]PB Andy wrote:
One of the workouts in Get Lean is basically you hit total 50 reps at a load of 20-22 RM in a circuit of Cable Seated Face Pull, Cable Standing Chest Press, Squat, and Reverse Crunch. You stop the set when your speed slows down, so you have to keep count of all the reps you are doing until you hit 50 reps. Just a bitch to do in a workout, especially when your heart is beating like crazy.

Oh, and each workout ends in HIIT (3x a week workouts, I need to get in the gym more than that), where you do something like 15s sprint, 45s walk for 10-20 minutes. [/quote]Seems like Crossfit to me…

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have no thoughts on this specific workout because I KNOW that Waterbury hates bodybuilding…so I know I wouldn’t listen to him for the best advice on getting swole.

As far as training twice a day, I think this is a bad idea for a newb, not so bad for someone intermediate, and it worked for me when losing body fat and working on condition.

Only training like that three days a week isn’t something I would recommend either for a newb. Newbs recover faster. i think most newbs need to be in the gym at least 5 days a week for optimal progress unless having some real problem with recovery.[/quote]

wouldnt that be more determined by total volume, frequency and intensity. as opposed to simply how many days a week a newb trains?

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have no thoughts on this specific workout because I KNOW that Waterbury hates bodybuilding…so I know I wouldn’t listen to him for the best advice on getting swole.

As far as training twice a day, I think this is a bad idea for a newb, not so bad for someone intermediate, and it worked for me when losing body fat and working on condition.

Only training like that three days a week isn’t something I would recommend either for a newb. Newbs recover faster. i think most newbs need to be in the gym at least 5 days a week for optimal progress unless having some real problem with recovery.[/quote]

wouldnt that be more determined by total volume, frequency and intensity. as opposed to simply how many days a week a newb trains?[/quote]

You’re exactly right. Noobs (true noobs with no lifting background at all) will be best served just learning how to lift and adding weight to a bar with a cookie cutter full body template like Bill Starr’s 5 x 5, Starting Strength, Jim Wendlers 531 full body template for noobs, HST, or even a full body HIT type workout with mostly free weights. After some months, they can split the body into upper/lower workouts and then eventually start doing full blown bodybuilding splits.

Just some thoughs from someone who has dont CW routines. I know i said only ABBH, but I used some of his full body templates for clost to a year back in college. I will say this, his routines will work and get you stronger and bigger, but not with aesthetics in mind.

I put on some great size in chest/back thighs with little growth to arms/shoulders/traps etc. If you are trying to look like a body builder id stick to a traditional template, if you are trying to look better than now and more ‘athletic’ i cant say anythign bad about his training methods.

I did the HFT program back in college when I had a lot of time with the 2x/day 3 day a week split for 10 wks. AM was heavy and PM was more bb’ing work/ volume. I did get stronger but the strength gains compared to doing one TBT session a day 3-5x a week was negligible (for me). That said, my TBT session were much more “auto-regulated/ went by feel” and the gains were a result of smarter programming for myself rather than following a cut and dry plan /my 2c

  1. I think that Chad has a lot of good ideas. He and I are on the same pages on MANY basic concepts. But we differ in the applications of these concepts. And I do agree with PB Andy that Chad’s programs are somewhat boring, at least to a strength & power guy like me. I’m also not a big fan of many of his exercise selection. With a minimalist approach you MUST use the best exercises possible to do the job.

  2. I do not think that Prof X comment is fair and I think it illustrates one of the things that are wrong with more ‘‘traditional’’ bodybuilders (or those who like that type of training). Just because someone doesn’t like bodybuilding doesn’t mean that he doesn’t know a few things that can help ANYBODY add muscle mass… including bodybuilders. I know that if somebody who HATES me come up with a very effective way to build muscle, I will use it.

X, what five day split do you suggest for a noob with no experience and has very little base conditioning/work capacity?

Jim Wendler isn’t big on traditional bodybuilding and many people have added a lot of size with his program, though maybe not with the symmetry of competitive bodybuilders.

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have no thoughts on this specific workout because I KNOW that Waterbury hates bodybuilding…so I know I wouldn’t listen to him for the best advice on getting swole.

As far as training twice a day, I think this is a bad idea for a newb, not so bad for someone intermediate, and it worked for me when losing body fat and working on condition.

Only training like that three days a week isn’t something I would recommend either for a newb. Newbs recover faster. i think most newbs need to be in the gym at least 5 days a week for optimal progress unless having some real problem with recovery.[/quote]

wouldnt that be more determined by total volume, frequency and intensity. as opposed to simply how many days a week a newb trains?[/quote]

Yep. Lotta variables aside from just frequency. Look at high school athletes training 5-6 days a week, and despite not even focusing on hypertrophy, still packing on noticeable muscle mass despite the considerable volume.

Should a beginner trainer be doing frequent 1-2 hours sessions every week, let alone multiple times a day? I feel fairly confident saying it’d be a bad idea. However, 30-45 min sessions, with considerable frequency may work for some people.

I will also note that I’m not especially knowledgeable about Chad’s programs, although I’m of the impression that the majority of his clients are not bodybuilders, and as such he may not tailor his programs as such. Still, it’s be a pretty ridiculous statement that a guy who has built a considerable reputation as a trainer wouldn’t have decent ideas to pack on lean muscle.

S

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

[quote]ryan.b_96 wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I have no thoughts on this specific workout because I KNOW that Waterbury hates bodybuilding…so I know I wouldn’t listen to him for the best advice on getting swole.

As far as training twice a day, I think this is a bad idea for a newb, not so bad for someone intermediate, and it worked for me when losing body fat and working on condition.

Only training like that three days a week isn’t something I would recommend either for a newb. Newbs recover faster. i think most newbs need to be in the gym at least 5 days a week for optimal progress unless having some real problem with recovery.[/quote]

wouldnt that be more determined by total volume, frequency and intensity. as opposed to simply how many days a week a newb trains?[/quote]

I will also note that I’m not especially knowledgeable about Chad’s programs, although I’m of the impression that the majority of his clients are not bodybuilders, and as such he may not tailor his programs as such. Still, it’s be a pretty ridiculous statement that a guy who has built a considerable reputation as a trainer wouldn’t have decent ideas to pack on lean muscle.

S[/quote]
People forget that Chad Waterbury used to be a pretty big dude, before he got into the whole MMA/looking smaller because of his clientele thing.

Chad Waterbury’s a total beast! He’s got some wicked ideas. I’ve never really understood why he gets so much hate on here.

Maybe now we have the Bigger, Stronger, Leaner forum we can fly his flag with honour

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Chad Waterbury’s a total beast! He’s got some wicked ideas. I’ve never really understood why he gets so much hate on here.

Maybe now we have the Bigger, Stronger, Leaner forum we can fly his flag with honour[/quote]

At one point he was even a full houser, and very strong.

I think this is a good forum because all styles of training for fitness (size, strength, maybe even some general conditioning and fitness stuff) can be discussed without it putting a damper on the bodybuilding thread.

[quote]Waittz wrote:
Just some thoughs from someone who has dont CW routines. I know i said only ABBH, but I used some of his full body templates for clost to a year back in college. I will say this, his routines will work and get you stronger and bigger, but not with aesthetics in mind.

I put on some great size in chest/back thighs with little growth to arms/shoulders/traps etc. If you are trying to look like a body builder id stick to a traditional template, if you are trying to look better than now and more ‘athletic’ i cant say anythign bad about his training methods. [/quote]

I’ve done almost all of his routine and my experience was just like this. His routines will build overall mass but you won’t come away from them with a “bodybuilder” look. Your arms may be disproportionately small, you’ll have next to no side/rear delta and calves suffer. But I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend his routine to a beginner and have him transition after maybe a year to a more conventional split.

[quote]BrickHead wrote:
I think this is a good forum because all styles of training for fitness (size, strength, maybe even some general conditioning and fitness stuff) can be discussed without it putting a damper on the bodybuilding thread. [/quote]

uh oh, sounds to me like Brick’s about to tell us he’s been Crossfitting…