T Nation

Cereal, Soy Protein and Kids

I saw a commercial for Kellogg’s Tiger Power this morning. It claimed to provide a balanced ration for children, including protein. This of course piqued my attention, as I immediately thought ‘soy protein’.

I was right, the stuff contains several grams of soy protein isolate. What do you guys think about the ramifications of feeding children, especially prepubescents, phytoestrogens from soy?

Sounds like bad news to me…

I was raised on soy milk due to lactose intolerance compounded with a wheat and oat allergy which I grew out of. In fact, I continued to drink soy milk until about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, a total of 25-26 years, when I started reading T-Nation. I believe due to that I have a mild case of Gyno.

It is wicked embarassing and I don’t have the dinero to get it squared away. No matter how lean I have gotten, even in the Marine Corps, there was still at least a little puffy nipple action. So I use myself as a sacrificial lamb and offer my story to anyone as to the effects of soy in the diet. Just read some article on this site and you will be changed for good.

[quote]wtagye wrote:
I was raised on soy milk due to lactose intolerance compounded with a wheat and oat allergy which I grew out of. In fact, I continued to drink soy milk until about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, a total of 25-26 years, when I started reading T-Nation. I believe due to that I have a mild case of Gyno.

It is wicked embarassing and I don’t have the dinero to get it squared away. No matter how lean I have gotten, even in the Marine Corps, there was still at least a little puffy nipple action. So I use myself as a sacrificial lamb and offer my story to anyone as to the effects of soy in the diet. Just read some article on this site and you will be changed for good. [/quote]

Do you have any other problems besides gyno? Do you gain strength and size okay? Does the equipment work okay?

[quote]wtagye wrote:
I was raised on soy milk due to lactose intolerance compounded with a wheat and oat allergy which I grew out of. In fact, I continued to drink soy milk until about 1 1/2 - 2 years ago, a total of 25-26 years, when I started reading T-Nation. I believe due to that I have a mild case of Gyno.

It is wicked embarassing and I don’t have the dinero to get it squared away. No matter how lean I have gotten, even in the Marine Corps, there was still at least a little puffy nipple action. So I use myself as a sacrificial lamb and offer my story to anyone as to the effects of soy in the diet. Just read some article on this site and you will be changed for good. [/quote]

“squared away”

wtagye gets a hundred points for casually injecting Marine slang in his post.

Good to go.

[quote]basementD wrote:
Do you have any other problems besides gyno? Do you gain strength and size okay? Does the equipment work okay?[/quote]

No other problems, I did gain weight ie fat when I would consume a lot of soy. Such as eating cereal everyday with soy milk or drinking soy based protein shakes. Other than that I gain strength and size fine now in fact probrably a little better. That could be also because of the better training plans i have found on this site.

No equipment issues, I was always hornier when my consumption was lower though. All of this is retrospective now, and I am sure that at the time I wouldn’t have really noticed it or connected it. I just always thought that it was a healthy option.

I know my kids will never drink it though. I also read somewhere that there has been an increase of ADD/ADHD like issues with kids since the change from coconut milk based baby formula shifted to a soy base. I think part of that though is expecting a kid that talks on a phone, IMs friends, listens to the radio, and plays on a playstation all at the same time to sit still and learn multiplication tables. I will answer any other questions feel free to ask.

[quote]conorh wrote:
“squared away”

wtagye gets a hundred points for casually injecting Marine slang in his post.

Good to go.[/quote]

Old habits die hard, especially when you work with a bunch of former military personelle for a Dept. of the Army lab.
Cheers and, of course, Semper Fi

Wow wtagye,

Now you got me thinking. Being fed just about anything since I was 1 I wonder how much soy I’ve consumed. I was raised in an asian & hawaiian background. So tofu, soybeans, soy milk were definitely present and no thought of anything affecting anyone negatively. When I started making my own decisions on what I ate it was before I hit high school and never ate soy stuff as much since then. Now for the past couple learning through reading about soy I hardly ever eat it purposefully. Now more accidentally like the cereal or in stir fry.

I was looking forward to scarfing down some Tiger Power, thinking it might be a good sub for frosted flakes (childhood favorite). Shucks.

[quote]wtagye wrote:
basementD wrote:
Do you have any other problems besides gyno? Do you gain strength and size okay? Does the equipment work okay?

No other problems, I did gain weight ie fat when I would consume a lot of soy. Such as eating cereal everyday with soy milk or drinking soy based protein shakes. Other than that I gain strength and size fine now in fact probrably a little better. That could be also because of the better training plans i have found on this site.

No equipment issues, I was always hornier when my consumption was lower though. All of this is retrospective now, and I am sure that at the time I wouldn’t have really noticed it or connected it. I just always thought that it was a healthy option.

I know my kids will never drink it though. I also read somewhere that there has been an increase of ADD/ADHD like issues with kids since the change from coconut milk based baby formula shifted to a soy base. I think part of that though is expecting a kid that talks on a phone, IMs friends, listens to the radio, and plays on a playstation all at the same time to sit still and learn multiplication tables. I will answer any other questions feel free to ask. [/quote]

wtagye,

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately my 4 month old son has just started drinking soy because he can’t tolerate milk anymore.

I am depressed as hell, I hope he will be okay. I will try to get him off it as soon as I can, but for now I am stuck with the soy.

It’s good to know that the soy didn’t effect you too badly. This gives me hope.

[quote]basementD wrote:
wtagye,

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately my 4 month old son has just started drinking soy because he can’t tolerate milk anymore.

I am depressed as hell, I hope he will be okay. I will try to get him off it as soon as I can, but for now I am stuck with the soy.

It’s good to know that the soy didn’t effect you too badly. This gives me hope. [/quote]

Look on the internet, I know there are some other options available. Especially when you look at antisoy sites. Good Luck

[quote]chubs108 wrote:
Wow wtagye,

Now you got me thinking. Being fed just about anything since I was 1 I wonder how much soy I’ve consumed. I was raised in an asian & hawaiian background. So tofu, soybeans, soy milk were definitely present and no thought of anything affecting anyone negatively. When I started making my own decisions on what I ate it was before I hit high school and never ate soy stuff as much since then. Now for the past couple learning through reading about soy I hardly ever eat it purposefully. Now more accidentally like the cereal or in stir fry.

I was looking forward to scarfing down some Tiger Power, thinking it might be a good sub for frosted flakes (childhood favorite). Shucks.[/quote]

Yea I know, finding out info definetly changes the way you eay. I still hate the taste of milk, in fact I even mix my Grow! w/ water. I think Chris Shugart posted a cool tip about using Grow! with some mini wheats to eleviate the cereal craving.

[quote]basementD wrote:
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately my 4 month old son has just started drinking soy because he can’t tolerate milk anymore.

wtagye wrote:
Look on the internet, I know there are some other options available. Especially when you look at antisoy sites. Good Luck[/quote]

Have you tried goats milk? It’s not bad stuff, and it might do the trick.

[quote]michaelv wrote:
Have you tried goats milk? It’s not bad stuff, and it might do the trick.[/quote]

I will look into it. I want to get my son off the soy formula asap.

I will check the antisoy sites. Thanks.

You could always slip him some M. There is nothing against full M doses at his age. Sorry, a little humor.

I’d have to throw out the notion that perhaps the soy at his age might not be so detrimental. As we all know prepube age is where your bones grow and pube is where your muscles grow. Obviously there is growth in both areas but more emphasis in some than others. I would PROPOSE that since soy has been debated as being better for bone health that the soy so early in developement wouldn’t be as bad. I would be more worried about a child consuming soy at age 13 then at the ages you describe. At age 12/13 when that huge hormone rush comes in I think you might worry about Soy.

Have you tried reduce lactose cottage cheese? You might get small curd and throw it in a blender to make it smooth. This obviously would be held off until the kid can eat baby foods as it would be pretty thick. What could be a better accomplishment then having a kid that grows up enjoying the lumpy stuff (It took me until last year to first try cottage cheese).

As an avid T-Nation reader have any of you guys with kids actually calculated caloric expenditures or added basic eating principles to your kids diet (ie P+C/P+F, etc.)?

Trigwu-

Actually, in many cases soy-based baby formula is equivalent to giving the kid several birth control pills!!! Because the baby is so small, even tiny doses of a hormones, or hormone-like chemicals like a phytoestrogen, can easily cause an imbalance. Since you’re an “avid” T-Nation reader, you might want to re-read the soy articles in the archives.

BasementD-

Sorry if I missed something, but is there a problem with giving your baby real breast milk??? If you’re a single dad I can understand, but beyond that, I hope your OBGYN or family physician didn’t suggest you bail on the breast milk unless your baby is at an extreme risk of death or disease.

I mean, we would have never made it this far as a species if our ancestors started using a substitute for breast milk. Biochemical reasoning would say that 99.9% of babies should have no problem with it. Then again, since several generations of parents have been exposed to an ever escalating levels of toxins and pollutants, maybe today’s parents are having genetically altered babies, which is why so many babies are having trouble with breast milk?! Still, in general, when doctors tell parents it’s okay to find an alternative if the kid keeps spitting up or won’t take the nipple are usually doing them both a huge disservice.

I believe there are milk banks in most major cities, where mothers donate their breast milk. Breast milk is just like blood, so it would have to be thoroughly screened before it could be deemed safe. There are also resources for this on the internet, but in many cases, there is no medical over-site so there are lot’s of risks involved.

TopSirloin

Good luck to anyone who tries. I have 3 kids (7,4,2) and trying to calculate caloric expenditures seems like an impossible task. We just make sure that they get a little of everything they need with each meal, keep the snacks to relatively healthy foods (ie crackers, pretzels, whole fruits), plenty of water (we always use 50/50 mix of water with any juice we give them), and they only get sweets after they’ve eaten their meals. I feel blessed that they all despise sodas, although we have to bring water to birthday parties for my 7 year old because parents often only provide soda, freaking retards!

DB

[quote]trigwu wrote:

As an avid T-Nation reader have any of you guys with kids actually calculated caloric expenditures or added basic eating principles to your kids diet (ie P+C/P+F, etc.)? [/quote]

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:

I believe there are milk banks in most major cities, where mothers donate their breast milk. Breast milk is just like blood, so it would have to be thoroughly screened before it could be deemed safe. There are also resources for this on the internet, but in many cases, there is no medical over-site so there are lot’s of risks involved.

TopSirloin[/quote]

WTF?? Milk banks. I never heard of this before.

My son had breast milk for the first three weeks of his life. Then my wife had to take a diagnostic test which involved radiation.

Doctors said it was okay to resume feeding, but she didn’t want to take any chances of radiation exposure to our son, so she stopped.

[quote]TopSirloin wrote:
Trigwu-

Actually, in many cases soy-based baby formula is equivalent to giving the kid several birth control pills!!! Because the baby is so small, even tiny doses of a hormones, or hormone-like chemicals like a phytoestrogen, can easily cause an imbalance. Since you’re an “avid” T-Nation reader, you might want to re-read the soy articles in the archives.

[/quote]

I am going to look into those articles. I still am far from being an expert on the subject.

The whole child developement thing has perked my interest as of late. I am no where near having children but I always wondered what would come about if you applied solid diet principles (from the likes of Berardi) to a growing child. Look what happens to the few teenagers who apply a solid training and eating program. Can you imagine the beast one could be if they turned 16 and already had 10+ years of solid eating under their belt. Obviously, you couldn’t have them doing resistance training but some pushups/pullups here or there never hurt anyone. Insanity. Wonder how my futre wife would feel if I turned my future son into a bodybuilding science experiment.

There are milk banks, but from what I understand they’re rare and may cater to sick babies or moms. Worth checking out, though. Also, it may be possible for your wife to re-lactate. Check out lalecheleague.org or search online for more info. Glad to see breastfeeding mentioned - it’s soooo healthy for babies.

Feeding my 3yo is a struggle. Here I am working hard at eating clean and healthy and he’s living on bagels, french fries, mac&cheese and hotdogs. I’m hoping he’ll get a little more reasonable soon so I can get some healthier foods into him.

Trigwu,
I don’t thinkyour initial assertion that prepuscent years are time for bone growth and pubescent years are times for msucle growth is correct. Prepube years are also marked by massive soft tissue growth which is not mediated by sex hormones, for the most part. To introduce sex hormones during this time and disturb the delicate HPTA seems like a greater risk than any benefit to bone growth. I’ve also never read any research about the effect of phytoestrogens on bone growth before the epiphysis have closed. I’m no steroid biochemist, but it just sounds like bad news to me.

I would much rather give kids a spoonful of cod liver oil providing them vitamins and essential fatty acids than try to encourage their growth hormonally. I don’t think they need any more than good nutrition to develope strong bones at their age.

[quote]trigwu wrote:
You could always slip him some M. There is nothing against full M doses at his age. Sorry, a little humor.

I’d have to throw out the notion that perhaps the soy at his age might not be so detrimental. As we all know prepube age is where your bones grow and pube is where your muscles grow. Obviously there is growth in both areas but more emphasis in some than others. I would PROPOSE that since soy has been debated as being better for bone health that the soy so early in developement wouldn’t be as bad. I would be more worried about a child consuming soy at age 13 then at the ages you describe. At age 12/13 when that huge hormone rush comes in I think you might worry about Soy.

Have you tried reduce lactose cottage cheese? You might get small curd and throw it in a blender to make it smooth. This obviously would be held off until the kid can eat baby foods as it would be pretty thick. What could be a better accomplishment then having a kid that grows up enjoying the lumpy stuff (It took me until last year to first try cottage cheese).

As an avid T-Nation reader have any of you guys with kids actually calculated caloric expenditures or added basic eating principles to your kids diet (ie P+C/P+F, etc.)? [/quote]