Celebrities in Politics

The “normal” politicians we have aren’t qualified. I think that’s the problem with our country right now.

For example, what has Paul Ryan done in his life that makes people think he should be one of the most powerful people in American politics? Did he have a military career? Was he a successful entrepreneur? Does he have an impressive academic background? The guy pretty much went from his parents’ teat to the government teat.

Mitt Romney, John Kasich, Rand Paul, Gary Johnson, etc…

There are quite a few with more than just government service.

I would prefer more than quite a few. And even those you mention are nobodies compared to Jefferson, Hamilton, Washington, Adams, etc.

I can see how you’d be disappointed comparing today’s politicians to the political equivalent of the '92 dream team.

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It’s not so much their inferiority but the size of the gap between them. Of course we as a people are to blame as we put more emphasis on someone’s ability when it comes to politics instead of leadership.

If you’re going to pick on anybody for lack of qualifications, I think that’s an odd choice. Not saying he is the best or most qualified, but classifying somebody who works their life in government as being on the government teat is a bit hyperbolic to the point of meaningless. A 5-second look at his wiki page shows he also worked as a marketing consultant. Then elected to the house, reelected 8 times and committees… blah blah blah. He’s a politician, and played the game to rise the ranks.

Irrelevant for most politicians imo, especially on domestic matters. It can certainly help one get into politics, or help if you want to consult for defense/security, other military matters, or for positions related to foreign affairs.

Irrelevant. There are a lot of entrepreneurs who are terrible at running a business, there are businessmen who are terrible entrepreneurs, and there are politicians who are both, neither, or one of the above. I don’t see it as an important distinction and would be surprised if there was a significant amount of entrepreneur’s who are politicians today.

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Exactly, that’s the problem. He had nothing before his career in politics that says he is someone special. He has shown that he is good at getting elected to office.

And I’m not saying those things I mentioned are necessarily important but simply that they are things we can use to judge someone. Marketing consultant? Oh yeah, I want you running things.

The Founders did not expect nor intend that being a politician would be a career choice. It makes people put their careers ahead of their duty.

What is Zecarlo’s criteria for someone to be a qualified politician?

What’s the yardstick and scope you’re referencing here?

How does one become qualified, in your view?

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Right, because he chose politics as his career…

That’s part of being a politician.

Obviously he has done some things right beyond that, considering he is now speaker of the House and was picked as VP at a very young age. That doesn’t happen to every politician who can get elected.

I’m pointing out that they are not an effective judge. The fact that Paul Ryan, or any politician is not an entrepreneur does not affect my opinion of them in any way.

My understanding is that many of them were career politicians, but that again is irrelevant. If they had that intention they would have put it in the constitution.

In my opinion being a career politician doesn’t make you qualified, just like not being a career politician and then becoming one doesn’t make you better. I repeat myself, if you want to pick on “unqualified” I think Paul Ryan is an odd choice. I think Trump is unqualified, precisely because he never held political office and has no idea how things work. Others thought it was a positive. I guess you’re in the other camp?

Edit: To circle back to the original topic. I think somebody like Oprah or Dwayne Johnson should run for governor first. If they do well then go for President, but just going for President is too big of leap with no experience in that world.

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I personally don’t want anymore celebrities running for President. Especially those who will lower my taxes, appoint conservatives to the Supreme Court and wipe out Isis.

I honestly don’t think we produce the types of people who would fit my idea of what being a statesman is. At least not in significant numbers.

I think the yardstick is obvious: the Founding Fathers.

The problem is that that is an option.

But we need leaders.

That’s because we are the ones who judge. But we need some evidence to examine.

It was not a full time job.

It was for many of them. Franklin, Adams, Jefferson, Hamilton, etc… all served their state or country for significant portions if not the majority of their lives. If Mitt Romney or John Kasich or Rand Paul are career politicians then so were many of the founders.

*I just don’t really understand what you’re looking for?

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Ryan may be “qualified” now but what were his qualifications before? When he was an undergrad dreaming about holding a significant political office, maybe even the presidency, what gave him the idea that he was worthy of having that power? He wasn’t someone who went out and lived an interesting life, learned new things, accomplished things then decided that he should get into politics because he had something to offer based on his personal experiences and wisdom.

I don’t think Trump is qualified because he lacks the intellect and education (not necessarily in the formal sense) to be president.

TBF, I don’t think the characteristics I think you’re talking about existed in any large numbers back then either.

and as far as magnitude goes, I’d be amazed if there weren’t a significant pool of people out there who exhibit the characteristics I think you’re referencing.

The issue might be more so that the state of politics pushes those people into other fields - or those other fields appeal more to people with those characteristics than politics does.

Specifically, what characteristics do you think would make up at best the perfect contemporary statesman, at least, an acceptable one?

Saying the Founders isn’t really a yardstick - they were a group of people of varying character, goals, intelligence and motivations. I mean Adams and Jefferson despised each other, Aaron Burr shot Alexander Hamilton. Washington hated the press. (I’m not trying to vilify them, but they weren’t perfect statesmen/politicians - so I’m really just trying to get a sense of what characteristics they exhibited you liked - I’m not interested in anything past that)

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They had lives and livelihoods outside of politics. I wouldn’t call those you mention career politicians. Obama was a career politician, for example.

Isn’t it what we all are looking for? Adults.

As do many current politicians like the ones I mentioned. I’m all for using the founders as the bar/standard. Don’t get me wrong. I just don’t find your comparisons to be, well, accurate. What did Adam’s do other than being a politicians?

You could argue that sure. He was only a politician for, what, 12 years? he was a professor before that. Now he’s an author and I assume he does something with his foundation. Does that make him career politicians? I guess.

Bernie Sanders is a good example. There are examples, I don’t dispute that.

Burr shot and killed Hamilton over, what amounts to, a decade-long dick measuring contest…

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This is possible.

I think Reagan is the best example of an American statesman that I can recall. I don’t think he was the greatest president and think the cult that exists around his memory is rather silly and ignorant but at least he understood that he represented all Americans. Trump ran on divisiveness and it seemed like people thought once the campaign was over he would then begin the process of unifying the nation but instead he has maintained a climate of divisiveness and negativity.

But looking at politicians today, how many of us are awed by their intelligence, integrity and wisdom? The idea that a moron like Roy Moore could have been a senator says something about what it takes to hold that office. Or does it say something about us?

John Adams was a successful attorney and writer. If you read about his son, John Quincy, it would make most of us feel like underachievers and most of those in office look like jokes.

I judge people according to historical context.

I knew he was a writer, I did not know that he was a lawyer.

Okay, then why do you expect current politicians to be like the founders? Times are way different.