[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
Hey folks. I have a question that I used to talk about with an old theologian friend of mine, and sparing you the finer points of our conversations I’ll put it to you:
Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]
Are you really asking or are you being sarcastic? It’s hard to tell in text sometimes.
For the record, man does not set the rules or boundaries of the saved or the damned. I’ll give my opinion if you are asking in good faith. [/quote]
No I don’t intend any sarcasm, and I’m not going to come back and try to twist your answer around to make a point. It’s just something that was never talked about when I was in Sunday school, and my friend used to say that insane people can’t go to hell. I thought it had to be more complicated than that, because then it could be argued that no sane person would do something like kill themself, which would mean that no suicides go to hell. You have my word, I’m just trying to understand.
[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
This “problem” stems from a lack of knowledge of who and what God is and the nature of sin in relation to Him. One single bite of fruit in defiance of His declared will was enough to plunge every last child of Adam into eternal perdition without a savior. One single act OR THOUGHT in want of conformity to the spotless holy will of almighty God is more than sufficient justification for eternal, endless, merciless and horrific torment.
To say nothing of years of such insolent rebellion. Once you get to know Him? This so called “problem” goes away. Fast. Seek Him and spend time in His Word. You’ll see. I know nothing about you and am for now taking your word that you’re a new believer. I was one too. I must confess though that what of your testimony you have thus far revealed is not all that encouraging. [/quote]Don’t you mean work out your salvation in fear and trembling? >>>[/quote]That is the doctrine of perseverance/preservation. A glorious truth, but I was discussing sin. (hamartiology) [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< I didn’t know everyone turned to Mother Teresa and John Paul the Great once they became saints. >>>[/quote]This is a nonsensical statement. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Everyone (hyperbole) has to go through the crucible in carrying their cross daily and conforming themselves to Christ. >>>[/quote]Indeed Chris. All of the elect do this and all the non elect don’t. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< To the point of the above poster, if one is in hell it is only by their rejection of God. >>>[/quote]If one is in hell ti is because the atoning blood of Jesus Christ has not been applied to them by grace trough faith and they are hence unequipped to work their own salvation in fear and trembling which all of the elect do. Oh yeah. Already said that. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< And, not merely what is seen from the outside. >>>[/quote]Of course. Moralistic “good works” save no one. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< Job was outside of the Covenant with the Jews >>>[/quote]There was no covenant with the Jews when Job lived and every principle applied to Abraham and all the other old testament saints are quite rightly applicable to him by clear and sound implication. [quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< God’s mercy is great >>>[/quote]Ohhhh how true this is dearest Christopher.[quote]Brother Chris wrote:<<< and therefore we can’t say if an individual is in hell.[/quote] We can be pretty certain in a very large % of cases. Maybe YOU can’t, but it’s pretty elementary, scripturally speaking.
[/quote]
I can’t reply to you right now because I don’t have time to go threw this paragraph and figure out what you wrote and what you quote, so I’ll get back to it once I have time. But in the mean time. I disagree with your heresy.
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
Hey folks. I have a question that I used to talk about with an old theologian friend of mine, and sparing you the finer points of our conversations I’ll put it to you:
Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]
[quote]Ambugaton wrote: Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]The real question is can the insane go to heaven? My answer? I don’t know the intricacies of God’s saving grace beyond what he has revealed. ALL of those chosen by Him for salvation are saved and all those who are not aren’t. I have no idea who they are and they may very well include some or all who are mentally impaired. I believe all infants and the unborn are elect in Christ because in the absence of biblical evidence to the contrary it make me feel good.
[quote]Karado wrote:<<< In other words: “Karado we don’t want to be challenged with the tough questions about the hard to crack and virtually impossible to convert Japanese, give me the easy stuff to talk about”.[/quote]They’re not a tough question to me. Got some tough ones?
[quote]Karado wrote:
My thoughts also turn to the Japanese People, one imagines Hell will be crowded with them
because their Country is 98% Buddhist and Shinto…virtually NO Christians in Japan.
IDK Man…somthin’s up and I cannot understand that the Japanese are all DOOMED,
wow, I’m trying to understand the ‘my way or the highway’ tenet of Christianity on that one,
Why doesn’t Japan get completely flushed down the toilet then and their Country just
SINK into the Pacific if they are of no use to Humanity in any spiritual way?
One could mention Islamic Countries as well, but there ARE a good number of Christians
in those regions.
[/quote]
Matt 7:13,14
â??Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Matt 24:14
“And the Good News about the Kingdom will be preached throughout the whole world, so that all nations will hear it; and then the end will come.”
Thx Honest Lifter, I wonder how Tokyo would respond to Billboards with those Scriptures
all over the City.
Some things don’t ‘compute’ as far as “cause and effect” as well.
For Example: We are a mostly a “Christian” Country, but one cannot walk the Streets of NYC at night
safely in many areas.
Virtually No Christians in Tokyo, and a guy I used to know told me Women walk
the Alleys and Streets without any fear of Assault because of their unusually low
crime rate in a City TWICE the size of NYC, so being that we are mostly “Christian”
and Tokyo is NOT, shouldn’t that be the other way around??
Buddhist/Shinto Tokyo should be the dangerous City, and foundationally ‘Christian’ NYC should have the
usually low crime rate…why is this??
[quote]Karado wrote:
Thx Honest Lifter, I wonder how Tokyo would respond to Billboards with those Scriptures
all over the City.
Some things don’t ‘compute’ as far as “cause and effect” as well.
For Example: We are a mostly a “Christian” Country, but one cannot walk the Streets of NYC at night
safely in many areas.
Virtually No Christians in Tokyo, and a guy I used to know told me Women walk
the Alleys and Streets without any fear of Assault because of their unusually low
crime rate in a City TWICE the size of NYC, so being that we are mostly “Christian”
and Tokyo is NOT, shouldn’t that be the other way around??
Buddhist/Shinto Tokyo should be the dangerous City, and foundationally ‘Christian’ NYC should have the
usually low crime rate…why is this??[/quote]
If you lived here a few years, you wouldn’t have to ask this question. The answer you are looking for is wholly secular. Tokyo is notBuddhist/Shinto. The things you’re talking about are just plain old culture.
Second: Japanese have some of the highest suicide rates on the planet. Again, this has nothing to do with religion per se.
Your question is a good one, actually, but you are muddying up the discussion by making a bunch of assumptions and projections before waiting to hear the answer.
Thx, yes I know that, more to your point it’s the Culture over there than the Japanese
going to Buddhist Temples en masse on a regular basis…'Same here on the Christian Side,
we SAY were “Christian”, but not many go to Church every Sunday.
As far as the suicide rate in Japan, one factor I’ve read on that is the ENOURMOUS
Pressure by Parents for their Children to succeed, looking at how the culture is on the cutting
edge there on tech side of things, their world renowned reputation of quality products
they produce, I can understand the pressure must be unreal for youth to succeed to the
point of ‘checking out’ via their propensity for Shame, an emotion our culture is
devoid of anyway.
Nevertheless, It is true that Tokyo is one of safest cities in the World crimewise compared to
to any Big City here, especially compared to the mainly dirty, trashy, Zombie Apocalypse lookin’ city of Detroit.
I’m saying that our cultures each have their negative and positive points. Most of the negative ones in the US are certainly not the result of a preponderance of Americans actively living a Christian life. Similarly, much of the good that we see in Japan is not the result of an active, or even passing dedication to either Shinto or Buddhist philosophy per se. It is the result, in part, of what you just pointed out, a culture pickled in shame, obsessed with the idea of conforming to collective expectations of the society at large, where individualism and rule violation is quickly and violently quashed.
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
Hey folks. I have a question that I used to talk about with an old theologian friend of mine, and sparing you the finer points of our conversations I’ll put it to you:
Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]
Are you really asking or are you being sarcastic? It’s hard to tell in text sometimes.
For the record, man does not set the rules or boundaries of the saved or the damned. I’ll give my opinion if you are asking in good faith. [/quote]
No I don’t intend any sarcasm, and I’m not going to come back and try to twist your answer around to make a point. It’s just something that was never talked about when I was in Sunday school, and my friend used to say that insane people can’t go to hell. I thought it had to be more complicated than that, because then it could be argued that no sane person would do something like kill themself, which would mean that no suicides go to hell. You have my word, I’m just trying to understand. [/quote]
Well I would say the whole line of reasoning is unreasonable, because it’s something we cannot know. What we do know is that God judges men’s hearts, and that our works will be tested by fire (i.e. put under some sort of scrutiny) to see if they stand up according to God’s plan for that person.
Now, the question really goes to culpability. Certainly, and truly sick person is going to be less culpable for their actions than their healthy counter part, but that does not mean they are completely free from judgement. They are, just like anybody else, responsible for that which they can control, however much or little that is. We are responsible for what we are responsible for and they are responsible for what they are responsible for.
It’s not really an answer to your question, but nobody can really answer it. Who goes to heaven or hell is not for us to decide or know. You are responsible for what you can control.
I think to many people worry to much about the fate of others when they really should be taking a look at themselves. Nobody I have ever met is righteous enough to pass judgment on another’s fate. Ultimately, we are here to be the best people we can…
When the question was put to Jesus about keeping the betrayer close at hand his answer was “What is it to you…, you follow me.”
Good advise, far to often ignored.
[quote]Karado wrote:
“Why does somebody always feel the need to jump in out of the blue, and be snide and sarcastic? Why can’t we shake things up a bit and have a reasoned discussion without the bullshit?”
In other words: “Karado we don’t want to be challenged with the tough questions about the
hard to crack and virtually impossible to convert Japanese, give me the easy stuff to talk about”.
[/quote]
Those aren’t difficult questions, they are retarded. People aren’t damned simply by the fact that they aren’t Christians and they are not saved by default if they are.\
It’s a small minded, tv preacher style ad hominems based on preconceived biases about Christians, it’s not an intelligent look into what Christianity really is and teaches.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Thx, yes I know that, more to your point it’s the Culture over there than the Japanese
going to Buddhist Temples en masse on a regular basis…'Same here on the Christian Side,
we SAY were “Christian”, but not many go to Church every Sunday.
As far as the suicide rate in Japan, one factor I’ve read on that is the ENOURMOUS
Pressure by Parents for their Children to succeed, looking at how the culture is on the cutting
edge there on tech side of things, their world renowned reputation of quality products
they produce, I can understand the pressure must be unreal for youth to succeed to the
point of ‘checking out’ via their propensity for Shame, an emotion our culture is
devoid of anyway.
Nevertheless, It is true that Tokyo is one of safest cities in the World crimewise compared to
to any Big City here, especially compared to the mainly dirty, trashy, Zombie Apocalypse lookin’ city of Detroit.
[/quote]
Detroit is a shithole, no doubt about that.
Now certainly Cortes can speak to Japanese culture and demographics far better than I could, but being safe in terms of crime doesn’t necessarily speak to the virtuousness of a particular culture over another. They may not be criminals, but they have other demons to contend with.
Certainly Abu dhabe is also a very safe city, I sure as hell would not want to live there. I wouldn’t want to live in Detroit either.
[quote]Karado wrote:
Thx, yes I know that, more to your point it’s the Culture over there than the Japanese
going to Buddhist Temples en masse on a regular basis…'Same here on the Christian Side,
we SAY were “Christian”, but not many go to Church every Sunday.
As far as the suicide rate in Japan, one factor I’ve read on that is the ENOURMOUS
Pressure by Parents for their Children to succeed, looking at how the culture is on the cutting
edge there on tech side of things, their world renowned reputation of quality products
they produce, I can understand the pressure must be unreal for youth to succeed to the
point of ‘checking out’ via their propensity for Shame, an emotion our culture is
devoid of anyway.
Nevertheless, It is true that Tokyo is one of safest cities in the World crimewise compared to
to any Big City here, especially compared to the mainly dirty, trashy, Zombie Apocalypse lookin’ city of Detroit.
[/quote]
Detroit is a shithole, no doubt about that.
Now certainly Cortes can speak to Japanese culture and demographics far better than I could, but being safe in terms of crime doesn’t necessarily speak to the virtuousness of a particular culture over another. They may not be criminals, but they have other demons to contend with.
Certainly Abu dhabe is also a very safe city, I sure as hell would not want to live there. I wouldn’t want to live in Detroit either. [/quote]
That’s exactly what I’m saying. There are no conclusions to be drawn from the comparisons presented. Unless I’m missing the intended point.
[quote]Ambugaton wrote:
Hey folks. I have a question that I used to talk about with an old theologian friend of mine, and sparing you the finer points of our conversations I’ll put it to you:
Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]
Are you really asking or are you being sarcastic? It’s hard to tell in text sometimes.
For the record, man does not set the rules or boundaries of the saved or the damned. I’ll give my opinion if you are asking in good faith. [/quote]
No I don’t intend any sarcasm, and I’m not going to come back and try to twist your answer around to make a point. It’s just something that was never talked about when I was in Sunday school, and my friend used to say that insane people can’t go to hell. I thought it had to be more complicated than that, because then it could be argued that no sane person would do something like kill themself, which would mean that no suicides go to hell. You have my word, I’m just trying to understand. [/quote]
Well I would say the whole line of reasoning is unreasonable, because it’s something we cannot know. What we do know is that God judges men’s hearts, and that our works will be tested by fire (i.e. put under some sort of scrutiny) to see if they stand up according to God’s plan for that person.
Now, the question really goes to culpability. Certainly, and truly sick person is going to be less culpable for their actions than their healthy counter part, but that does not mean they are completely free from judgement. They are, just like anybody else, responsible for that which they can control, however much or little that is. We are responsible for what we are responsible for and they are responsible for what they are responsible for.
It’s not really an answer to your question, but nobody can really answer it. Who goes to heaven or hell is not for us to decide or know. You are responsible for what you can control.
I think to many people worry to much about the fate of others when they really should be taking a look at themselves. Nobody I have ever met is righteous enough to pass judgment on another’s fate. Ultimately, we are here to be the best people we can…
When the question was put to Jesus about keeping the betrayer close at hand his answer was “What is it to you…, you follow me.”
Good advise, far to often ignored. [/quote]
[quote]Ambugaton wrote: Can the insane go to hell? By insane I mean people with impaired ability to differentiate between right and wrong. [/quote]The real question is can the insane go to heaven? My answer? I don’t know the intricacies of God’s saving grace beyond what he has revealed. ALL of those chosen by Him for salvation are saved and all those who are not aren’t. I have no idea who they are and they may very well include some or all who are mentally impaired. I believe all infants and the unborn are elect in Christ because in the absence of biblical evidence to the contrary it make me feel good.
[quote]Karado wrote:<<< In other words: “Karado we don’t want to be challenged with the tough questions about the hard to crack and virtually impossible to convert Japanese, give me the easy stuff to talk about”.[/quote]They’re not a tough question to me. Got some tough ones?
[/quote]
I’m talking about when I clicked quote, it’s all one long paragraph.
[quote]Brother Chris wrote:[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
Fair enough Chris. I’m glad to see that though you don’t know what I’m saying or quoting you DO know it’s heresy AND disagree. You didn’t pick up a spirit of divination somewhere did you? =][/quote]I’m talking about when I clicked quote, it’s all one long paragraph.[/quote]That’s what my pretty uniform posts look like before the tagging is rendered by the forum software. I have some trickery I use for that Christopher. Just because you’re one my favorite people I just may share all that with you.
“People aren’t damned simply by the fact that they aren’t Christians…”
Wow, TV preachers say otherwise, including that Tammy Faye lookin’ Poofy Pink Haired Lady sitting on that opulent Throne-Like Chair on TBN…Where exactly can we find that one doesn’t have to be Christian
to be saved in Scripture?
Honestly, the lack of anger and outrage at how Christianity is broadcast on the airwaves is astonishing
by the most seemingly erudite here…No outrage, it’s just…“LA DEE DA, I’m erudite, I know more than Karado, and I turn the other way at how Millions are being decieved by most TV Preachers because it doesn’t matter.”
Even “King Kai” was easily offended when I asked him the other day where he got his Christian Education, he thought
it was “personal” question…REALLY??
I didn’t ask him his real name, where he lived, how many kids he has, or his social security number,
just to point in the direction where he’s learning his stuff because it truly sounds like it can
actualy edify a person a bit more…little by little.
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys!
While not universally the case most big media preachers are reprehensible charlatans who I have denounced numerous times here. The worst deceptions out there are from pseudo Christian heretics (not just or even primarily on TV) to be sure. I agree. Just to throw it out there? You have no idea what I or anyone else does off these boards.
[quote]stefan128 wrote:
I’m not sure where to post this but I believe this is the right place. I can’t post a link now, but the article is about how a GOP candidate said something along the lines of,‘a pregnant rape is God’s will,’ or something like that. So my question is, is everything predetermined? Does God determine everything that happens in the World? I believe in free will, but this question always gets me. Thanks in advance guys![/quote]